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Disclosure and Reputation Management Firms Options · View
MissJ
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:02:12 PM
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Disclosure and "reputation management" firms.

Some doctors hire reputation management firms to scout the net for negative commentary about them. These kinds of firms effectively run interference in behalf of a doctor as in they interfere with the flow or presence of commentary about him. These kinds of RM firms perform a variety of services for the doctor, including but not limited to:

1: Constantly monitoring what is said about them on the net.
2: Bombarding the net with good press so it 'pushes down' negative stuff during a Google search
3: A variety of tactics to use to 'prompt' the board owner to take down negative commentary.
The spectrum can include anything from a polite letter requesting removal to a legal threat.

Some of the RM firms advocate in favor of drafting something that looks like a legal threat as it has a good chance of the board owner 'caving in' to the request. Others advise against that because it could piss off a board owner and prompt them to announce; 'This guy gives me legal threats' (which can backfire on the doctor).

4: Services that include the RM firm pretending they are a "happy patient" and entering commentary of such.
(Which I think could be an FTC violation to pose as such)

RM endeavors play a role in promotional information being found first and negative information being flushed away.

On the other side of the coin, patients on message boards are actually in PURSUIT of information the doctor is NOT controlling himself. Asking for feedback from other patients about a doc is such an example.

On one hand, the doctor wants to control what info patients get about him. On the other hand patients want information not controlled by the doctor.

Do you think doctors hiring reputation management firms should DISCLOSE that to patients.




Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
DCNGA
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:21:02 PM
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Yes, they should disclose.

You should hide some, if not all, of your forums from public view. You would never have to be concerned about this (being threatened with legal action). It's not worth the stress.

DCNGA has left the board and is no longer taking PMs.
She requests that if you wish to e-mail her to use her direct e-mail address which is: laserandiplsupport@gmail.com
MissJ
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:23:47 PM
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Thing is that makes it hard for legit people (like patients) to see how great this board is. Anyway, I made private, the main face board and opened up face aug for a while.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
m130
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:41:35 AM
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Quote:
4: Services that include the RM firm pretending they are a "happy patient" and entering commentary of such.
(Which I think could be an FTC violation to pose as such)


Do RM firms say they do this? I too suspect it happens a lot. It's very effective marketing.

Has anyone written to the FTC to ask about this sort of thing, just as a theoretical? Say, "is this sort of thing lawful, by your rules?"

I wonder if they would subpoena IP addresses, etc. in an investigation to see who actually left reviews / posed as a patient on message boards and ratings sites. Would this count as "telemarketing"?

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ HMMMmmmmmmmm.......

On making parts of the board private, you could leave some "best of" type threads out and update once in a while so people can see the depth of knowledge and experience here, but that is of course a giant PITA.
stache
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:01:26 AM
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From NPR.com -

If you've just moved, as we have, and it's time to find a new doctor, how do you at least rule out the really bad apples?

Well, try the cool interactive map put together by William Heisel for the Reporting on Health site. You might start with the version embedded above.

Heisel's been trolling the records of state medical boards across the country this year. And he's found all kinds of problems you'd probably like to learn about before ever setting foot in a hospital or doctor's office.


There's the California ER doc charged with driving under the influence on her way to the hospital on Valentine's Day last year. After the cops released her, she worked the overnight shift "legally drunk" for at least half the period, he writes.

A recent Heisel post tells the story of a Kansas doctor disciplined by the state medical board. The county hospital that employed him decided the offenses were serious enough to fire him. Eventually, the state medical board censured him, too. But for what? You can't tell from the records, Heisel notes, because all the specifics have been redacted.

Finally, just up the road from us, Heisel uncovers the case of an anesthesiologist at Children's National Medical Center who was found to be taking painkillers that were supposed to be used for children's surgeries.
MissJ
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:21:38 PM
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I've come across some pretty shady sounding ones in which it appeared that was one of the things they would do.

In situations where doctors write their own reviews , I think they need to get a lot of complaints about that. Surely LifeStyle Lift (that was suspected for doing this for years) got bagged for doing it.

For the most part the reputable RM firms get the negative stuff pushed down in the google pages so the positive stuff comes up first.

Thing is that if a patient is looking to get past the promotional stuff, there are ways to conduct Google searches that call up pages the RM pushes down.






m130 wrote:


Do RM firms say they do this? I too suspect it happens a lot. It's very effective marketing.

Has anyone written to the FTC to ask about this sort of thing, just as a theoretical? Say, "is this sort of thing lawful, by your rules?"

I wonder if they would subpoena IP addresses, etc. in an investigation to see who actually left reviews / posed as a patient on message boards and ratings sites. Would this count as "telemarketing"?

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ HMMMmmmmmmmm.......

On making parts of the board private, you could leave some "best of" type threads out and update once in a while so people can see the depth of knowledge and experience here, but that is of course a giant PITA.


Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
stache
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:26:43 PM
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MissJ I'm wondering, of the inactive accounts you have, could some of them be lurker/spiders that are keeping track of what is being transmitted here?
MissJ
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:42:55 PM
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The ones with 0 posts are ranked "unapproved". "Unapproved" rank does not allow access to closed boards--does not allow reading them. A "spider" is actually a robot thing. Not a human. Open sign up is turned off and that stops spam bots from signing up here. Even if a spam bot gets in, (sometimes I open the sign up to sign up a person myself), it CAN'T POST or read closed boards. If the open sign up option is 'on', the auto ranking of the open sign up is: "unapproved. write to miss J for approval"

Also, I can see HOW 'inactive' an account is. Like if the sign up was in May 2009 and that was the LAST time the person logged in here--then it's really inactive.

Something like a Google bot that spiders the web for content gets in. But Google bots are OK.

From my perspective, I'm not really trying to 'hide things'. I'm just trying to strike a balance with regard to my resources as to limit board resources to contributing members and not open too much up to 'lurkers' who suck resources.


stache wrote:
MissJ I'm wondering, of the inactive accounts you have, could some of them be lurker/spiders that are keeping track of what is being transmitted here?


Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
MissJ
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:04:53 PM
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For example, say someone searches for something and my site comes up. It comes up because Google has indexed it some way to be called up after it's bots have been in here. That's fine as a search on Google does not really use my resources. But unlimited viewing does as it can make the site go slower for the members. However, I can control unlimited viewing by changing the privileges of a "guest" . Like I can set the controls that a guest can't post and have 'read only' access or I can set controls where guest has 'no access' to read.

Since I'm basically a patient advocate, I don't want to close off all discussion to outside viewers because I feel a lot of stuff on here tends to be quite helpful. But since I can't afford to subsidize the entire 'public at large', all resources are not open to the entire public at large.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
DCNGA
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:25:26 PM
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Some forums allow you to say 'no access' for bots as well. Maybe yours does too? You can keep them from 'crawling' your site.

DCNGA has left the board and is no longer taking PMs.
She requests that if you wish to e-mail her to use her direct e-mail address which is: laserandiplsupport@gmail.com
MissJ
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:48:28 PM
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The bots are not a big problem for me.



DCNGA wrote:
Some forums allow you to say 'no access' for bots as well. Maybe yours does too? You can keep them from 'crawling' your site.


Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
DCNGA
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:25:34 PM
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Sorry, I misread your post previous to mine.

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MissJ
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:48:56 PM
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DCNGA,
Now lasers are something where reputation management is so built in to their marketing. I mean for lasers, that's all the average patient finds is promotional stuff from the laser industry. What are your suggestions with regard to using Google to dig up the dirt or get the real goods on LASERS? Would "LASER injury" be a good place to start?

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
DCNGA
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:25:19 AM
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I've searched on every variation (laser damage, laser harm, laser horror story, IPL damage, IPL harm, laser injury, VBeam damage, etc.)and still had to dig for pages to find many stories. Most of the stories about adverse outcomes that do come up are from my current/old forums, MMH, and Realself. Searches must be refined to INCLUDE what you want to know, a search cannot be too broad or generic or it won't return negative feedback, just all of the fluff. If I just did a search on "laser procedure" or a generic variation of that, nothing would likely ever come up that shows the stories of those who've been harmed.



DCNGA has left the board and is no longer taking PMs.
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rev3
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:52:10 AM
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yes this is so

even celebs hire management companies to "hide" what might otherwise be seen (by potential investors, producers, studios and fans) when googling their name.

ingenious in this time of "full-google-disclosure"
HateMeI'mALawyer
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 9:27:58 AM
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As someone who owns his own business, I can tell you how damaging the internet can be. In fact, nowadays, if you want to work in one of my offices, or even just provide due process services for my firm, you have to sign an agreement that says you're not going to speak negatively about me personally or my firm. This policy came about after I had a bad experience with a disgruntled employee a couple years ago. She and her boyfriend, who was an insurance adjustor, trashed me everywhere, and they went to great lengths to do so. They even went so far as to start a rumor that I have a daughter, and that I'm a deadbeat dad. Those things are libelous because they affect my ability to earn a living. If someone wants to know my track record in court, that's quite easily found, but most people don't look in the right places when they're looking for a professional, be it a doctor or any attorney. They just scour the net, where anyone can post anything.
NancyS
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 11:33:08 AM
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HateMe - I'm glad you brought this up. I don't think we can assume that doctors who are trying to protect their reputations online are all just bad doctors covering up their mistakes. I think there are also many cases of unhappy patients, perhaps for no reason that can be legitimately claimed against their doctors, who try to attack through internet postings. Working in the legal field myself, I often see where our clients might really be in the wrong, while sometimes our clients are in the right. It just doesn't cut one way or another.

m130
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:50:58 PM
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I answered my own question in the other thread..
m130 wrote:
Do RM firms say they do this?


Frank Ryan's blog wrote:
"I recently met the CEO of a web marketing company who described a type of marketing that his company does in which he and his team get paid by doctors to regularly log onto all the plastic surgery message boards and rave about those doctors. The CEO’s employees pose as patients and rave about what a wonderful surgeon so-and-so is and how they wouldn’t go anywhere else and how the doctor changed their lives, etc. The more the doctor pays, the more time the team will spend posting glowing reviews about the doctor. The CEO said, “If you visit some of these web sites, you will see names of doctors you never heard of with rave reviews and ten stars out of ten. You will also notice that some of the top doctors have fewer rave reviews, fewer stars and often more negative comments.”
HateMeI'mALawyer
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:24:29 PM
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I can guarantee you that this kind of thing happens all the time. Services are CONSTANTLY cold calling me, and they do the same to my partner who's a physician.
stache
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:30:19 PM
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That must get annoying.
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