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Vitamin D deficiency and osteopenia Options · View
barbiegirl
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:17:36 PM
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kosmeds wrote:
It's not a comparable situation. In addition, there's no requirement for either D3 or DHA/EPA directly from the diet. D2 is adequate and only 18:2, n−6 and 18:3, n-3 are required, but in the right proportions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19321560

That most people eat garbage is another matter.


It is totally a comparable situation. They are both metabolites of a larger compound that need to be converted to an active to be used by the body. There absolutey is a requirement for EPA/DHA from the diet. You can eat all the ALA you want, but if you can't metabolize and convert it to EPA and DHA it is useless, then you will get sick and die. They are essential.

I am not willing to disregard my entire nutritional education based on one study. I will continue to recommed D3 to my patients as the best form of vit D until it has been proven otherwise. But you are certainly more than welcome to supplement with whatever form you feel is best for you.

"My friends, love is better than anger.
Hope is better than fear.
Optimism is better than despair.
So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
And we’ll change the world."

stache
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:13:46 PM
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My endocrinologist told me to take D3.
MissJ
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 7:11:56 PM
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I know I take the D3 5,000 IUs and a fish oil cap (in addition to other supplements). I usually 'defer' to what Adelle D avis suggested many years ago. For oils she did stress eating things with the essential fatty acids in them.

Another interesting thing about D3 I read (in another context when I was looking for non toxic ways to kill mice) is this stuff is lethal for a house mouse (but no problem if the dog or cat eats the dead mouse as far as the D3 was concerned LOL). Considering that D is also a 'sunshine vitamin' and good for bones and that mice are nocturnal creatures with virtually NO bone structure--like they don't really have a rib cage just kind of a snake like spine and that's why they can squeeze through holes much smaller than they are), kind of makes some intuitive sense that D3 and mice would not be good mix.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
Zoey
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 8:49:41 PM
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Yes, that has been all over the news. In fact today, a big internist on one of the TV stations said that he will be telling all of his post menopausal women to stop taking calcium supplements and to just get their calcium through their foods. My mother takes calcium supplements so I immediately called her and told her to call her internist.

Sarah W wrote:
There has just been a large study published stating that the taking of calcium supplements gives a 30% increased risk of a heart attack and an increased risk of strokes also. I can look it up if anyone is interested.

I have been taking 1000mg of calcium supplements a day for years......I thought I was doing the right thing for my bones. You can't win!
barbiegirl
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:25:53 PM
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Zoey wrote:
Yes, that has been all over the news. In fact today, a big internist on one of the TV stations said that he will be telling all of his post menopausal women to stop taking calcium supplements and to just get their calcium through their foods. My mother takes calcium supplements so I immediately called her and told her to call her internist.



This is why it is so important to supplement calcium with magnesium (either 2:1 Ca:Mg or 1:1). Mangesium helps to keep the calcium soluable so it does not lead to arterial calcification. Calcium also stimulates contractions- including to the heart and arteries, where magnesium stimulates relaxation which can reduce blood pressure and other CV stressors.

Again, this is just one study. The media often blows health related studies out of proportion (because again, they're typically based on the findings of a single study) causing either mass panic or complacency. It is also important to note that many "studies" for various compounds that are featured on the news are actually PR developed advertisments.

"My friends, love is better than anger.
Hope is better than fear.
Optimism is better than despair.
So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
And we’ll change the world."

MissJ
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:26:34 PM
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Well, when an artery is clogged there is a LOT of 'STUFF' in the PLAQUE. Like there can be cholesterol in there, calcium and peridontal pathogens, triglyerides and MORE STUFF in there. Have not read the study but years back when they looked in the plaque of clogged arteries and found cholesterol, they indicated to stop eating foods with that BUT cholesterol alone was not the culprit. So, maybe this is similar where they find some calcium in the plaque and equate that with supplements. I don't know but a lot of those studies are funded by corporate interests and I'm always circumspect of the findings or how they present them towards people making conclusions from them.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
barbiegirl
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:40:53 PM
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MissJ wrote:
Well, when an artery is clogged there is a LOT of 'STUFF' in the PLAQUE. Like there can be cholesterol in there, calcium and peridontal pathogens, triglyerides and MORE STUFF in there. Have not read the study but years back when they looked in the plaque of clogged arteries and found cholesterol, they indicated to stop eating foods with that BUT cholesterol alone was not the culprit. So, maybe this is similar where they find some calcium in the plaque and equate that with supplements. I don't know but a lot of those studies are funded by corporate interests and I'm always circumspect of the findings or how they present them towards people making conclusions from them.


Yep, the plaque contains various minerals, including calcium and one of the last things to go down to "repair" the artery is cholesterol because it is slippery to allow blood flow and prevent clots. Dietary cholesterol really appears not to have much of an impact on cholesterol levels; the theory is based on a very old study where they forced fed rabbits huge levels of saturated fats and cholesterol. They made the huge leap that if force feeding a vegan animal these compounds (which they naturally do not eat) elevates cholesterol, it must in humans too. People in previous generations ate FAR more saturated fats and cholesterol, yet heart disease was rare.

Contrary to popular belief its all the refined, processed and rancid "heart healthy" oils cause serious free radical damage and are a serious risk factor for heart disease. This free radical damage injures the arteries, causes systemic inflammation and the body tries to repair this damage by laying down a plaque. My general advice is that moderate amounts of QUALITY saturated fats is fine, but avoid all processed and refined vegetable oils. First cold pressed organic unrefined vegetable oils such as olive, avocado, rice bran, flax, hemp or pumpkin seed are all great if they are processed and stored away from heat, air and light and no hexane, bleach, degummers, deoderizers, solvents or other chemicals are used. Store all oils in small dark glass airtight bottles that can be used quickly away from heat air and light. Never heat polyunsaturates (flax, pumpkin, hemp etc) and only heat monounsaturates (such as olive or avocado oil) to medium heat.

"My friends, love is better than anger.
Hope is better than fear.
Optimism is better than despair.
So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
And we’ll change the world."

MissJ
Posted: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:11:38 PM
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Adelle D said similar about avoiding any rancid oils or overly processed ones.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
Sadie
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:01:15 AM
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Barbiegirl, what do you think of Blue Bonnet calcium/magnesium supplement:
http://www.amazon.com/Bluebonnet-Calcium-Magnesium-Strawberry-Gluten-Free/dp/B000CEQQZC
I like the taste and it's easy to take. If it's not a good one, can you recommend another brand that's liquid?
Thank you
Sadie
MissJ
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:51:04 PM
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I had that one before. It's expensive at healthfood store and it needs to be kept in fridge. Later I just got calcium citrate and mag citrate tabs.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
Zoey
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:02:31 PM
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That's a good question. My mother has a hard time swallowing the calcium pills. I suggested a liquid form for her. So I am curious about that too.

Sadie wrote:
Barbiegirl, what do you think of Blue Bonnet calcium/magnesium supplement:
http://www.amazon.com/Bluebonnet-Calcium-Magnesium-Strawberry-Gluten-Free/dp/B000CEQQZC
I like the taste and it's easy to take. If it's not a good one, can you recommend another brand that's liquid?
Thank you
Sadie
barbiegirl
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:02:41 PM
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Sadie it looks like a pretty good one, as long as you are ok with the sugar.

"My friends, love is better than anger.
Hope is better than fear.
Optimism is better than despair.
So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
And we’ll change the world."

barbiegirl
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:03:21 PM
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MissJ wrote:
Adelle D said similar about avoiding any rancid oils or overly processed ones.


She sounds like she was wise before her time.

"My friends, love is better than anger.
Hope is better than fear.
Optimism is better than despair.
So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
And we’ll change the world."

Sadie
Posted: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:13:26 PM
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Thanks Barbie!
Sadie
barbiegirl
Posted: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:51:22 PM
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Sadie wrote:
Thanks Barbie!
Sadie


You're welcome ! :)

"My friends, love is better than anger.
Hope is better than fear.
Optimism is better than despair.
So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
And we’ll change the world."

MissJ
Posted: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:59:27 PM
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She was one of the first and most passionate to write about nutrition as she was appalled by what the American diet was turning into due to the processed food companies.


barbiegirl wrote:


She sounds like she was wise before her time.


Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
Sarah W
Posted: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:16:56 AM
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I still have her cookbook. Shows my age!
DCNGA
Posted: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:20:55 PM
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From ConsumerLabs (I take D3, btw):

Quote:
D2 or D3?
Several years ago, studies indicated that, at very high doses (4,000 IU per day for two weeks or a single dose of 50,000 IU), the D3 form of vitamin D is more efficient at maintaining serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels, than the D2 form.2,3 However, a more recent and longer term study using a more common dosage, 1,000 IU daily, showed the two forms to be equally effective at raising and maintaining serum levels.5 An even more recent study showed that the two forms are also equally efficient whether taken daily as an oral supplement or in a fortified orange juice, based upon a dose of 1,000 IU per day.7

Deficiency vs. Insufficiency: Serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D
After being ingested, both vitamin D2 and D3 are metabolized in the liver to form 25-hydroxy vitamin D and in the kidneys to 1,25-hydroxy vitamin D. Serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (also referred to as 25-(OH)D) are commonly used clinically to evaluate vitamin D status. A level below 15 ng/ml is considered deficient as it is too low to for bone health or overall health. Even levels below 30 ng/ml are considered insufficient (though not “deficient"). Levels of 30 ng/ml or above are considered desirable. [Another way of expressing these levels is in nanograms per liter: 1 ng/mL = 2.5 nmol/L, so 30 ng/mL = 75 nmol/L.] Levels above 200 ng/mL (500 nmol/L) are considered too high.8

Although a small percentage of the population is believed to be deficient in vitamin D, a large percentage of the population is believed to have vitamin D insufficiency. It was recently reported that 61% of America children and adolescents had insufficient levels of vitamin D (based 25-(OH)D levels) and an additional 9% were deficient. Deficient children tended to have higher blood pressure and lower levels of HDL ("good") cholesterol than other children. Older children were more likely to be deficient, as were those who were obese, drank milk less than once a week, or spent more than four hours a day with TV, video, or computers. Those who used vitamin D supplementation were less likely to be deficient.4

A rule of thumb for raising serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D is that about 100 IU of vitamin D2 or D3 daily will raise serum levels by 1 ng/ml in an adult. With moderate (1,000 IU per day) supplementation, it has been shown to take about 6 weeks for serum levels to reach their peak. For example, during winter with no significant sun exposure, supplementation with 1,000 IU has been shown to increase levels of around 20 ng/mL up to about 30 ng/ml at six weeks. In such a scenario, sun exposure or a dosage higher than 1,000 IU would be necessary to further elevate levels above 30 ng/mL.5


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lindahr
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:57:48 AM
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CG
I take Something called solar D, Vit D3, each softgel has 2000 IU, it seems like it's from cod liver oil or something and I take the Norwegian Cod liver oil, each soft gel has 1000 mg in it, is this enough for Vit D
stache
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:29:35 PM
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Only way to really tell is to have your D level checked.
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