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It's called "defensive medicine". A doctor will NEVER admit to a patient he screwed up or was in the wrong. They consider it an admission that could be used against them in a law suit. She can send him all the letters she wants outlining he made the wrong judgement call and all it's going to do is tell him 'delicately' that he was operating UNDER THE STANDARD OF CARE and of course, he will get defensive and not admit to it or apologize or give any money back. I would NOT write HIM a letter but RATHER find a LAWYER who can determine IF what he did was below standard of care. The lawyer will take the case IF it looks like a good one. You would probably need an 'expert witness' which would be a DERM. The derm would have to say something like the PS was not conversant in SKIN CONDITIONS enough to ID them and also below the standard of care if the derm can stress that the standard of care is to administer Anti-Biotics when an OPEN BURN is left on the face. Another type of expert witness would be someone who is a burn specialist; doctor who is know for treating burns. DCNGA wrote:Bug, you got such a short reply because he is FEARFUL you are going to sue him. He does not want anything else in writing, I bet. You have not one but TWO doctors who've basically said he treated you improperly.
I truly would send him a letter, outline all that happened, including all of his misdiagnosis and failur to send you to a specialist and then the subsequent diagnosis you received from two doctors, one of whom is a SKIN SPECIALIST. Then (unless you want to sue him for not meeting the standard of care or sheer negligence), tell him you don't have plans to move forward with a lawsuit but you want EVERY PENNY of your money refunded, plus what all of the lab costs were, the two other doctor's costs, and all medication. If you don't plan to sue, you certainly deserve reimbursement for what he cost you. Most doctors would gladly give you your money back if you don't sue (but you will probably have to sign a waiver saying you won't sue in the future).
But, you might also want to wait and make sure all is 100% okay and to make sure you have no further repercussions (but I think you are going to be fine) in case you do decide to start a formal lawsuit for negligence.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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I see your point Miss J. But, I think in most states (not positive tho) you have to have 2 expert witness to testify of gross negligence or acting below the standard of care to be successful in a malpractice law suit. This is what many of the ladies on the support board have said, at least. I'm also betting/guess he would claim he met the standard of care part when HIS nurse administered the antibiotics, he did the culture and gave her oral antibiotics. It bet it could be argued that not all docs give antibiotics pre-procedure, so not prescribing prophylactic antibiotics may not fall below the standard of care. One of the docs on MMH told me you can be a bad doctor all day long but if your intentions were good and you provided the minimal standard of care and was not blatantly negligent, it would be difficult to win a malpractice suit. In GA there is a limit to the amount that can even be awarded in a success malpractice case ($100K, I think). I guess that was my reasoning for her to send the letter that she wanted her money back. But, in hindsight the best thing she could do is seek legal advice. Maybe a letter from a lawyer would be a better route, or at least consulting one.
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Well, I think it's better if a lawyer sent the letter. I would not have to go to litigation though.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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Yes, you are right. Ignore my earlier post, Bug. I'm not attorney and should not have been trying to advise you. You need a pro for sure.
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You see, I would first want to establish IF there could be a case before writing him any letters. Like if the lawyer says; 'Na, ladybug you don't have a case', THEN she could write him a letter. They have a lot of 'Ask a Layer' websites where you pay some small fee to have a lawyer answer your initial question. So, she could start there.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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Yeah, I'm mulling the reimbursement issue right now ... cuz I got the bill for that skin culture he took off my face: $360. I mean, not to niggle, but he didn't even TELL me I'd be getting that bill, and if he'd said "I'll have to charge you for this." I would've insisted that he have the culture done by a lab in my Anthem network. I feel that some kind of reimbursement is DUE, but I will also be patient for probably 2-3 mos just to make sure I'm out of the woods. I have the most painful burning lips NOW. WTF is going on with that? I'm hoping I don't have to return to my GP doc yet again with another issue. I appreciate your suggestion below about adding up ALL the frickin' bills and seeing if I can get any of this back. ==================================== DCNGA wrote:Bug, you got such a short reply because he is FEARFUL you are going to sue him. He does not want anything else in writing, I bet. You have not one but TWO doctors who've basically said he treated you improperly.
I truly would send him a letter, outline all that happened, including all of his misdiagnosis and failur to send you to a specialist and then the subsequent diagnosis you received from two doctors, one of whom is a SKIN SPECIALIST. Then (unless you want to sue him for not meeting the standard of care or sheer negligence), tell him you don't have plans to move forward with a lawsuit but you want EVERY PENNY of your money refunded, plus what all of the lab costs were, the two other doctor's costs, and all medication. If you don't plan to sue, you certainly deserve reimbursement for what he cost you. Most doctors would gladly give you your money back if you don't sue (but you will probably have to sign a waiver saying you won't sue in the future).
But, you might also want to wait and make sure all is 100% okay and to make sure you have no further repercussions (but I think you are going to be fine) in case you do decide to start a formal lawsuit for negligence.
I Bug U
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Right again. I'd just be stating the facts. Altho wasn't one of us (watchthemoon?) being harassed by her doc after she'd posted unfavorable comments about him at MMH? It's as if MMH moderators are in cahoots with these surgeons. And believe me, if I was sued by him, I wouldn't take it lying down. My GP says "Let it go. You'll get nothing out of him." And he is wise, and perhaps knows the stress of pursuing all what's due to me may not be worth it. When bad things happen to good people. Title of a best-seller. ========================================== MissJ wrote:You should UPDATE your REVIEW of him on MMH or maybe put a LINK to here to your sticky.
You gave the guy a great review in 2006. He needs a NEGATIVE one now.
I Bug U
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Yes, posts that could cause them (MMH) a potential lawsuit are removed. They claim they've had suits started against them by docs more than once for remarks on the board (which is BS as if you state your experience and post pictures of your results, there's little a doc can really do) but they ALWAYS side with the docs and not the patients. Look at realself, every legitimate review there contains the doctor's name and RateMD too. MMH is just a mecca of censorship. They've lost a lot of readership because of their attitude. Docs can set up alerts that emails them every time their name is mentioned on the web or if they know the username of specific people on various websites, they can set up an alert to notify them when that person posts to see if they said anything about them. Pretty amazing, eh? Think googlebots: http://www.google.com/support/alerts/bin/static.py?hl=en&page=guide.cs&guide=28413Quote:Find out what's being said about you: Enter your full name in quotes to receive an email when news stories, blogs or web pages mention your name. Example: [ "Joe Bloggs" ]
If you have a common name, you can use negative terms to remove irrelevant results. For example, if you have the same name as a professional football player, try adding -football to your query. Example: [ "Joe Bloggs" -football ].
If you get a lot of results from a site that you aren't interested in, you can exclude results from that site. For example, if you don't want results from twitter.com, add [ -site:twitter.com ] to your query. Example: [ "Joe Bloggs" -site:twitter.com ]. I think you are handling it all very well, Bug. As for your lips, I think I would call my GP to check with him just to be safe given your previous probems.
DCNGA has left the board and is no longer taking PMs. She requests that if you wish to e-mail her to use her direct e-mail address which is: laserandiplsupport@gmail.com
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No Bug, it wasn't me that a doctor was pursuing for bad comments.But just to add a bit about your doctor, I had a consult with him and was not impressed.For a so-called laser expert he had terrible skin which doesn't bode well in my book.Also, he wanted to do a combo erbium/C02 with general anesthesia and it was really expensive compared to the other consults plus his photos were very few and he really rushed me and the office never told me beforehand there was a consult fee.The mixto I think is a fairly new machine in his office as I check his site out from time to time.I ended up getting a facelift with someone in his office who has left and moved out of the area. When I wanted to get a follow-up with him he and recommended someone else to look at my areas of the concern rather than your doctor who was supposedly covering for my doc's former patients.Not sure why he wasn't recommending him but he basically said he's okay but there are better surgeons.
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That IS curious! Was it the San Mateo office you'd seen the other doc in? Ah well, water under the bridge now. And for the record: I WAS happy as a clam with all the facial work he'd done on me in '04. I think my doc's single, fatal flaw is the "crisis management" after-care. Cuz in both of my instances (ketamine-induced anesthesia and MixTo with staph complication) there were real-life crises NOT addressed in a timely manner. Not only is the patient dealing with a scary scenario minute-by-minute, but it does nothing for one's sense of confidence in a DOCTOR. And ultimately, that spells NO more business going forward. ======================================== watchthemoon wrote:No Bug, it wasn't me that a doctor was pursuing for bad comments.But just to add a bit about your doctor, I had a consult with him and was not impressed.For a so-called laser expert he had terrible skin which doesn't bode well in my book.Also, he wanted to do a combo erbium/C02 with general anesthesia and it was really expensive compared to the other consults plus his photos were very few and he really rushed me and the office never told me beforehand there was a consult fee.The mixto I think is a fairly new machine in his office as I check his site out from time to time.I ended up getting a facelift with someone in his office who has left and moved out of the area. When I wanted to get a follow-up with him he and recommended someone else to look at my areas of the concern rather than your doctor who was supposedly covering for my doc's former patients.Not sure why he wasn't recommending him but he basically said he's okay but there are better surgeons.
I Bug U
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Oh boy! Now I got this to look forward to - censorship. And like others, I am just stating the FACTS. Why can't I share my pictures so others know what they're getting in for? That should not be a crime, cuz believe me NO MixTo brochure or doc's website is going to show the kind of outcome like I had. And I would bet I'm not the only one in the whole world to have these complications. ========================================== DCNGA wrote:Yes, posts that could cause them (MMH) a potential lawsuit are removed. They claim they've had suits started against them by docs more than once for remarks on the board (which is BS as if you state your experience and post pictures of your results, there's little a doc can really do) but they ALWAYS side with the docs and not the patients. Look at realself, every legitimate review there contains the doctor's name and RateMD too. MMH is just a mecca of censorship. They've lost a lot of readership because of their attitude. Docs can set up alerts that emails them every time their name is mentioned on the web or if they know the username of specific people on various websites, they can set up an alert to notify them when that person posts to see if they said anything about them. Pretty amazing, eh? Think googlebots: http://www.google.com/support/alerts/bin/static.py?hl=en&page=guide.cs&guide=28413 I think you are handling it all very well, Bug. As for your lips, I think I would call my GP to check with him just to be safe given your previous probems.
I Bug U
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Bug...yes it was in the San Mateo office.By the way, on your pics on MMH said you were "happy" with your result on the right.Best change that don't you think.
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They won't delete pics in albums, just posts on the forums if they feel a post could get them in trouble with a doctor.
DCNGA has left the board and is no longer taking PMs. She requests that if you wish to e-mail her to use her direct e-mail address which is: laserandiplsupport@gmail.com
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Thank you for that reminder! I have just surfed up to MMH and edited my album text. That's THAT. ===================================================== watchthemoon wrote:Bug...yes it was in the San Mateo office.By the way, on your pics on MMH said you were "happy" with your result on the right.Best change that don't you think.
I Bug U
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Hope my info is safe over at RealSelf.com too! Cuz I've got text and photos over there, too. DCNGA: there's a gal at MMH asking right now about getting IPL on her lower eyelids. I just have to shake my head in wonder. Do these posters even READ the stuff out there? ================================== DCNGA wrote:They won't delete pics in albums, just posts on the forums if they feel a post could get them in trouble with a doctor.
I Bug U
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Just had someone join the support board (have a new board now, btw) who said that she did a LOT of research on IPL and never found one bad thing, but she was not searching on the right terms. If you just put in "IPL" or "Intense Pulsed Light" in a search, all that comes up is the 'good' stuff. They have to search on IPL damage or IPL fat loss, but then they would have to know that it caused damage or fat loss to search on it, a catch-22. Our new board is not coming up in google yet but the old one is (IPL and Laser Damage Support). I also started a FB group hoping to get some exposure for this. CNN showed interest, Erin Brockovich showed interest, news reporters and TV stations but they all end up not fighting the machine that is the device makers. These are FDA approved devices, case closed. It means someone taking on the FDA over this and no one in our group is equipped to do it nor am I. Tell her to google "IPL and Laser Damage" she will find plenty, including my blog. Both URLs are in my posts here if you click on the "www" or "blog". I get around 5 emails a week or comments on the blog about a new 'victim' or "I never knew before I had IPL that this could happen" or "my doctor never told me any of this." When they go to their doctors the doctors say "I've never heard of this". I've devoted almost 2 years to this as have many on the board who've stuck with it, trying to get the word out. Maybe one day, but doctors don't believe or listen. Think of how dismissive your doctor was in your last email and magnify that by a 1000 and that how is all of these ladies are treated. It is frustrating and hurtful to everyone current, past, and future. Some are told they are too 'emotional' or 'seeing things'. Dr. T in FL recently saw one of the ladies for a consult for fat grafting. He said she was so 'distorted' he did not know if he could fix it all. Can you imagine? Please warn people. I know you had a good experience with IPL but many have not AND they never knew it was even a possibility. I used to tell people to just read the stories on the support board. If they bothered to read, they often never went through with the IPL. At least making them aware of the issues gave them a chance to make an informed decision.
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DC, I didn't do IPL (even with a highly qualified derm who's done thousands of cases at University of Texas Medical School, and is a rosacea expert) because of your timely advice, based on the hard work you've done researching laser damage. Believe me, it was HARD not to want to just relent and try it when my "rosacea" looked the worst and I was very discouraged, but I didn't give in. I'm using Finacea now, and back on my thyroid meds, and a great deal of the redness is resolving. Many thanks...still indebted to you! You ARE making a difference...just keep it up. Right now, the docs are gonna still do laser procedures because of the $$$$, and they know they stand behind a huge protective shield if they damage patients, thanks to the FDA.
Pay no attention to Caesar. Caesar doesn’t have the slightest idea what’s really going on. Kurt Vonnegut
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Thank you, Shaz. I'm glad you listened to your inner voice. I have no idea why it happens or why it seems to be a 'selective' problem but it is real. I know it does not happen to everyone, it couldn't possibly and so many doctors continuing with these procedures. But, the stories are so shockingly similar and all of these stories have the same thing in common: cosmetic medical device procedure prior to symptoms appearing. It's not a coincidence, I'm sure of that. It's some sort of DNA or radiation damage is all I can surmise but I'm not a doctor, scientist or researcher so I'll likely never know. I think it's going to take a doctor having someone he/she loves who's affected by these devices to finally find out what's causing it all. The FDA is useless, this much I have accepted.
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Bugjune, I am sorry this happened to you, and I am glad you are sharing this. It may very well prevent it from happening to others.
I had a couple questions: You were discharged from the procedure to a hotel, with no F/U appointment, or instructions on what to look for, like an elevated temp? Burns are very susceptible to infection, and S. Aureus is everywhere. If you were sent out on your own with no follow up, or your calls were ignored, or you were given medical advice by a receptionist, that is a standard of medical care violated right there.
And it sounds like you were administered an IV (cephalosporin) in the office, so there was some 'suspicion' of serious infection, of several days duration. Given the large area of infection and time elapsed, your systemic problems should have been suspected. You are not expected to know this! Don't let anyone make you feel guilty or responsible.
You weren't referred because he didn't want this known, and thought that he could 'handle' it. Yes, surgeons should be able to deal with routine post surgical infections, but they should also know when they are over their head. This guy has a serious god complex. A lot of surgeons develop this. My dad used to say "If you ask any surgeon to list the World's Three Greatest Surgeons, he will be hard pressed to come up with the other two names."
Good luck.
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Wow, Bug! You really dodged a bullet. How absolutely scary. Glad you are on the mend.
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