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Does anyone practice a balanced acid/alkaline diet? Options · View
Bugjune
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:23:17 PM
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So it's 2am last night. My brilliant hubby leaps out of bed with a "brain fart": he thinks my diet is too acid.

I'd had the MixTo facial lasering 3 weeks ago, and am still crawling out of a hole from a severe adverse reaction to the anti-viral drug, Valtrex, that was given to me prior to the treatment.

Now I am plagued with "cankles" (BIG, FAT - not Greek - swollen ankles and feet) and an odd, nasty-looking rash all down my neck and onto the chest. I have been feeling fatigued, and all together, these symptoms could be lymph-related.

But I have also been having far more acidic foods and beverages that I should: pizza with tomato sauce, lemonade, eggs, fresh berries, pineapple, even fish (yes, it's supposedly acid-producing once digested).

I would be curious to know if anyone out there - particularly if you have an auto-immune condition - watches your diet carefully to balance acid with alkaline foods?

I have printed out 4 charts of acid/alkaline foods from various health web sites, and am utterly dismayed to see HUGE disagreement among them as to what foods are to be eaten, and which to be avoided. How am I supposed to sort through all this?

Also, I read an intriguing bit that it isn't the food's initial ph level that counts so much as the "ash" or residue left over AFTER it is digested. So, believe it or not, lemons are considered alkaline-producing fruit! Even tomatoes and grapefruit are considered ok; bananas borderline; blueberries VERY acid-producing.

If anyone has experience or knowledge to share here, I'd be very, very grateful. I am focusing all my positive energy on MONDAY, June 7th, as the END of my odd rash. Dammit I want a date. And I want it done with.

I Bug U
Shaz
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:13:12 PM
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Bug...I haven't done the acid/alkaline thing, but Barbiegirl is SO GOOD with diet stuff, I know she'll chime in...you could PM her also for advice. She ROCKS on that stuff!! I'm about to have to do a Candida elimination diet, along with Nystatin, heavy-duty probiotics and a little Diflucan later on. I've been putting this off forever, but after a couple rounds of antibiotics in the last 6 months, and unbelievable stress levels, my body is crashing big time and PISSED OFF at me for neglecting it. It's a really restrictive diet for a food and wine lover (cooking creatively is a passion and stress reducer for me). I'm gonna look at this as "therapy" and "good medicine", though and try to go with the program in another month or so.

I definitely have candida overgrowth - got tested a few years back. My scalp broke out a couple months ago, and my thyroid (I have autoimmune thyroiditis-Hashimoto's) wonked out, I'm beyond exhausted. The rash-like rosacea thing on my face flared up badly - it's only developed in the last couple years. So, I got new thyroid tests and am back on my natural thyroid meds. It's making the "rosacea" that flared up badly look better, to my huge relief. My doc said getting candida levels under control will resolve a ton of things.

I think you're on the right track with the diet thing - your husband is a GEM - WOW!! Good for him for helping you with this. He's one smart cookie. But also check the candida symptom lists and see if that may also be a problem...antibiotics, etc. can cause huge internal candida overgrowth stuff. HTH...still sending you BIG WARM FUZZY HEALING THOUGHTS!! (Also to Julia, bag2, and Earl who've recently had surgeries/procedures) ;-)

Pay no attention to Caesar. Caesar doesn’t have the slightest idea what’s really going on. Kurt Vonnegut

Bugjune
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:24:32 PM
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Hmmmm. Lots of food for thought here, Shaz. First off: my HUGE condolences for your current health condition - which I bet WILL improve dramatically once you get that Candida monster tamed. I think nearly everyone over 50 has a problem with that! And many years ago, when I was in my late 40s, I had a lot of symptoms on the Candida list. That's one of the things that prompted me to do the daily nasal rinse and take my probiotics. I am trying to keep GOOD bugs alive where they are needed (in my gut) and bad bugs OUT (nasal, sinus, etc.,).

For anyone with auto-immune condition, anything that goes in the mouth has to be carefully monitored. It's like the body goes into attack mode, which is triggered by any kind of imbalance of body chemistry. So you manifest your problems in the thyroid and skin (fatigue, rosacea), and I manifest mine in my SKIN, damn skin. It has always been my most troublesome "organ" - and I think the medical community actually classifies skin as the largest human organ now.

Antibiotics are a necessary evil! I could not have clawed my way out of that staph infection on my skin, infected eye and high fever that I had last month without Keflex; but the rise in their use (along with chemotherapy) has lead to outbreaks of drug-resistant Clostridium Difficile bacterium in all hospitals, clinics, nursing homes and yes, I'm even thinking my plastic surgeon's operating/recovery room!

I will be very curious to see the results of major blood work I'm having done in July. And I'm getting so impatient, I'll probably reschedule the app't to sooner, the faster I can get on to treating any problems that crop up. The human body can be remarkably resilient in so many instances (accident, trauma, disease), which is why it just discourages me so NOW as I battle these annoying, incessant health probs I'm having.

I am hoping BarbieGirl will chime in. Good luck to YOU on the upcoming treatment. Explore ALL avenues for your quality of life. There is no price tag that can be put on it.

I Bug U
kosmeds
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 3:09:09 PM
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Yes, I've been on a high fruit/vegetable diet for ten years now. The secret is to increase fruit, vegetables, beans, and to decrease dairy (especially cheeses), grains, and meats/flesh of all kinds. You can substitute starchy roots/tubers for most grains.

Here's a paper:
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/nutritionGeneral/Remer%20and%20Manz%20Acid%20Base.pdf
Bugjune
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 4:46:07 PM
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OK, this is GREAT! I've printed out a copy and will read it shortly. I had just this morning found out about the connection between foods and our ph level (in saliva and urine). So hubby is off to the pharmacy to buy some ph strips - I GOTTA have a baseline here! I feel like I'm just under siege right inside my own body.

I've seen you mention countless times about your veggie/fruit diet; today that very food pyramid was on the Dr. Oz TV show. He puts dairy at the tiny, tippy top of the pyramid, with fruits and veggies at the bottom.

Other fact I'd learned this morning was how acid-producing RICE is. So I am already changing my dinner menu tonight to snapper, roasted root veggies and a salad. Even potatoes are better than rice - high in potassium and alkaline in nature.

Thanks for that paper Kosmeds! I will have my work cut out for me this afternoon.


============================
kosmeds wrote:
Yes, I've been on a high fruit/vegetable diet for ten years now. The secret is to increase fruit, vegetables, beans, and to decrease dairy (especially cheeses), grains, and meats/flesh of all kinds. You can substitute starchy roots/tubers for most grains.

Here's a paper:
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/nutritionGeneral/Remer%20and%20Manz%20Acid%20Base.pdf


I Bug U
kosmeds
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 7:06:31 PM
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I'm not sure this is exactly the same data, but the presentation here for food data is clearer:
http://www.saeure-basen-forum.de/pdf/IPEV-Food_table.pdf
Sadie
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:33:54 PM
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I was just reading an article on the Huffington Post about low acid diets. Evidently, they are also good for naturally building bone. There is a resource for the diet in the book Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom by Christiane Northrup, MD
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christiane-northrup/osteoporosis-treatment-a_b_585528.html
MissJ
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:49:17 PM
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Not sure if I can help you much on that one but I've read that the BLOOD maintains it's normal PH and does not change much with trying to alter acid base foods. Also, like you said, some acid foods are not 'acidifying'. Like they say apple cider vinegar is good for making system 'less acid' even though it's acid.

How about one of those DE-TOX fresh juice deals like freshed juiced fennel, carrot, beet and apple and then some "Milk Thistle" pills. Those things they use to 'detox' the liver. Also, cloraphill (sp?)--fluid from health food store which is said to 'cleanse the blood'. So does red clover tea.

So, try juicing fennel, carrot, beet and apple. Drink a lot of red clover tea. Swig down a mouthful of chlorophyll and down some Milk Thistle tablets. A naturopath very well could suggest something like that to act to help detox the LIVER. Then there is acupuncture in which they always go after the LIVER as a lot of people have liver problems--not in the "medical" sense but the way the alternative med folks look at it.


Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
MissJ
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:00:55 PM
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I don't know if you can identify common WEEDS but there are some very common WEEDS that are good for the skin. Like curly DOCK, plantain and comfrey. These things are all over the place. Another WEED that's nice to eat (like spinach) is called "Lamb's Quarters" and as you probably know already; dandelion greens. Those also help cleanse the liver. I also mentioned red clover which is also somewhat of a WEED. Lots of WEEDS out there with healing ability.

Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
kosmeds
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 6:26:06 AM
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[I've read that the BLOOD maintains it's normal PH and does not change much with trying to alter acid base foods.]

Yes, this is true, it's regulated very tightly to pH 7.35-7.45 AT THE EXPENSE of bones or other tissues. It takes the electrolytes/minerals from nearby tissues as needed to do so.

[How about one of those DE-TOX fresh juice deals like freshed juiced fennel, carrot, beet and apple and then some "Milk Thistle" pills.]

If you want true "detox" you need the fiber. In the large intestine, bacteria ferment the soluble fibers in fruits and vegetables into short-chain fatty acids. These end up in the blood and help to keep the cardiovascular system clean and unclogged. I have nothing against juicing (and do it myself occasionally) but only against a background diet of much more than 30 g of fiber per day (double or triple is better), from food, not supplements.
Larazelle
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 10:53:27 AM
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Hey guys - especially people who know stuff about diets like MissJ and Kosmed -

I have a lot of doctor friends, had them as housemates and also dated a few - and all these dudes eat meat - not a lot of meat - but about three times a week - high quality, low fat meat from Wholefoods (so without hormones or antibiotics) and my surgeon who operated on my meniscus was very upset when I told him I was vegetarian - he said that on every level (skin, bones, joints, glands etc.) the body heals much better when eating meat - so I started eating red meat once or twice a week and I noticed a big change in my vitality levels and my health - I slept better, my skin looked younger, eyes brighter etc. etc. and yes my knee healed - now that I have a foot injury I am thinking of doing a modified kind of Atkins diet - but in no way as extreme as that - I will eat salads, legumes (with a bit of rice) and red meat 3-4 times a week - cutting out extra sugar, bread, pasta, ice cream - lets see what happens -- As an aside I do think people can do as well on vegetarian diets but they have to make sure they get all the amino acids - and even-- then heme iron (which you get from meat)and is very important for the body is missing - I think that we (western folks) don't do as well on vege diets as subcontinent Indians as they have been "programmed" for hundreds of years to be vegetarian and so maybe the cells in their bodies adjust to this variation in diet and compensates for it - I have a few Brahmin Indian friends who are vegetarian and have a legacy of it - like in the year 1100 their ancestors were vegetarian - I think all those years of being vegetarian make it "safe" for them to be vegetarian - but people living in Cambridge,Mass who are vegetarian or even worse vegan - will suffer in the long run from some vitamin deficiency -



Hotels in Cleveland
MissJ
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:54:01 AM
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Then, she can also EAT the fiber left over found in the juicer after extracting the juice from the suggested things. lOL



kosmeds wrote:
[I've read that the BLOOD maintains it's normal PH and does not change much with trying to alter acid base foods.]

Yes, this is true, it's regulated very tightly to pH 7.35-7.45 AT THE EXPENSE of bones or other tissues. It takes the electrolytes/minerals from nearby tissues as needed to do so.

[How about one of those DE-TOX fresh juice deals like freshed juiced fennel, carrot, beet and apple and then some "Milk Thistle" pills.]

If you want true "detox" you need the fiber. In the large intestine, bacteria ferment the soluble fibers in fruits and vegetables into short-chain fatty acids. These end up in the blood and help to keep the cardiovascular system clean and unclogged. I have nothing against juicing (and do it myself occasionally) but only against a background diet of much more than 30 g of fiber per day (double or triple is better), from food, not supplements.


Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
Bugjune
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 12:44:25 PM
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Very clean and handy listing of all the main foods here! I appreciate that. And it's easy to use, cuz as your scientific paper points out, the HIGHER the PRAL number, the more I should avoid that item. Parmesan - MAMA! How'm I gonna live without ya?! So curious how things like apple cider vinegar score low.

Figs and raisins. That's what I'm needing now in large quantities! Thanks for sharing.


=====================================
kosmeds wrote:
I'm not sure this is exactly the same data, but the presentation here for food data is clearer:
http://www.saeure-basen-forum.de/pdf/IPEV-Food_table.pdf


I Bug U
Bugjune
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 12:56:53 PM
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Good article! I agree with MOST of the recommendations: low-acid diet, some supplementation, definitely lots of weight-bearing exercise and the Pilates/Yoga for core strength. Oddly enough, I DO find that I seem to be allergic to any large amount of Vitamin C in pill or powder form. I'd been taking 1,000 mg prior to and through the MixTo lasering, and developed mouth sores that were inflamed any day that I'd have mega doses of C - even several days after the allergic reaction to Valtrex that I had. The daily requirement is only 40 mg for an adult ... so to go up to 2,000 or MORE as suggested would seem extreme, and perhaps my body would just whiz it all out.


=======================
Sadie wrote:
I was just reading an article on the Huffington Post about low acid diets. Evidently, they are also good for naturally building bone. There is a resource for the diet in the book Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom by Christiane Northrup, MD
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christiane-northrup/osteoporosis-treatment-a_b_585528.html


I Bug U
Bugjune
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 12:59:29 PM
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I like that idea! I have a fabulous Breville juicer that needs to come on out of the closet and get juicing! Will add fennel and beet to my shopping list today. And red clover tea ... sounds intriguing! Thanks for the tip!


=================================
MissJ wrote:


How about one of those DE-TOX fresh juice deals like freshed juiced fennel, carrot, beet and apple and then some "Milk Thistle" pills. Those things they use to 'detox' the liver. Also, cloraphill (sp?)--fluid from health food store which is said to 'cleanse the blood'. So does red clover tea.



I Bug U
Bugjune
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:10:00 PM
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NO! NO! NO! Don't do Atkins diet - even modified! That is far too unbalanced and extreme in its acidity. You can get ketosis of the blood - which is too much acetone buildup.

I honestly believe that having some meat occasionally is OK - it's all about balancing. You want to have about 80% of your dietary intake on the alkaline side (you'll like that part, cuz it's all fruits & veggies!) and 20% on the acid side (meat, eggs, fish and cheese pretty much sum that up). So YES! perhaps some meat will make your skin, tissues, hair, etc., look great. You just don't want to go overboard and have a 50-50 diet with more meat/acid, or as Atkins would do, more like an 80/20 diet with mostly acid-producing foods. Even Atkins told his followers to CLOSELY monitor their ketone level using Ketostix to check their urine. You could end up with gout.

I think Westerners can tolerate a vegetarian diet just as good as Indians! But we need to be mindful of the protein content. Legumes, nuts, yogurt, things that Indians eat with every meal my not occur to Westerners.


=================================
Larazelle wrote:
Hey guys - especially people who know stuff about diets like MissJ and Kosmed -

I have a lot of doctor friends, had them as housemates and also dated a few - and all these dudes eat meat - not a lot of meat - but about three times a week - high quality, low fat meat from Wholefoods (so without hormones or antibiotics) and my surgeon who operated on my meniscus was very upset when I told him I was vegetarian - he said that on every level (skin, bones, joints, glands etc.) the body heals much better when eating meat - so I started eating red meat once or twice a week and I noticed a big change in my vitality levels and my health - I slept better, my skin looked younger, eyes brighter etc. etc. and yes my knee healed - now that I have a foot injury I am thinking of doing a modified kind of Atkins diet - but in no way as extreme as that - I will eat salads, legumes (with a bit of rice) and red meat 3-4 times a week - cutting out extra sugar, bread, pasta, ice cream - lets see what happens -- As an aside I do think people can do as well on vegetarian diets but they have to make sure they get all the amino acids - and even-- then heme iron (which you get from meat)and is very important for the body is missing - I think that we (western folks) don't do as well on vege diets as subcontinent Indians as they have been "programmed" for hundreds of years to be vegetarian and so maybe the cells in their bodies adjust to this variation in diet and compensates for it - I have a few Brahmin Indian friends who are vegetarian and have a legacy of it - like in the year 1100 their ancestors were vegetarian - I think all those years of being vegetarian make it "safe" for them to be vegetarian - but people living in Cambridge,Mass who are vegetarian or even worse vegan - will suffer in the long run from some vitamin deficiency -



I Bug U
Larazelle
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:41:55 PM
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Bugjune wrote:
NO! NO! NO! Don't do Atkins diet - even modified! That is far too unbalanced and extreme in its acidity. You can get ketosis of the blood - which is too much acetone buildup.


I think Westerners can tolerate a vegetarian diet just as good as Indians! But we need to be mindful of the protein content. Legumes, nuts, yogurt, things that Indians eat with every meal my not occur to Westerners.


=================================


Bug -

To lose weight, atleast for me - I have to cut out a lot of carbs - which are bread, pasta, icecream sugar - and so if you call that a modified Atkins then so be it - but bottom line it works for me -

Westerners may ostensible look like they don't have a problem with vegetarian diets but somewhere down the line - maybe after 55 or 60 they start to have vitamin deficiencies - JMHO

Hotels in Cleveland
Sadie
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 3:05:44 PM
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I can't take Vit-C in large quantities. Every time I take extra Vit-C in any form, I break out in a rash across my forehead and down the sides of my face. My dermatologist called it a vitamin C rash.


Bug-
Good article! I agree with MOST of the recommendations: low-acid diet, some supplementation, definitely lots of weight-bearing exercise and the Pilates/Yoga for core strength. Oddly enough, I DO find that I seem to be allergic to any large amount of Vitamin C in pill or powder form. I'd been taking 1,000 mg prior to and through the MixTo lasering, and developed mouth sores that were inflamed any day that I'd have mega doses of C - even several days after the allergic reaction to Valtrex that I had. The daily requirement is only 40 mg for an adult ... so to go up to 2,000 or MORE as suggested would seem extreme, and perhaps my body would just whiz it all out.
Bugjune
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 4:34:56 PM
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Yes, you are absolutely right about cutting out a lot of the bread, pasta, ice cream and sugar - so if that's watcha call "modified Atkins" ok! Just as long as you keep the meat, fish, eggs and cheese at NO more than 20-25% of your total food intake, you'd probably have a good, healthy diet.

Now oddly enuf, my mother-in-law, (American as apple pie!) has lived in India since 1949 - on a largely vegetarian diet. She is now almost 85, and has no major health issues (heart, arthritis, other organ prob). Pretty dang remarkable.

But I have also known a few sworn "vegans" and "vegetarians" from their 20s to their 50s. IF they can add sufficient protein and have a balanced intake, they are athletic and healthy. But some have constant colds, are skinny and just never peppy, like their immune system is shot. My guess is that they do not have a balanced diet.

=========================================
Larazelle wrote:


Bug -

To lose weight, atleast for me - I have to cut out a lot of carbs - which are bread, pasta, icecream sugar - and so if you call that a modified Atkins then so be it - but bottom line it works for me -

Westerners may ostensible look like they don't have a problem with vegetarian diets but somewhere down the line - maybe after 55 or 60 they start to have vitamin deficiencies - JMHO


I Bug U
Shaz
Posted: Saturday, June 05, 2010 6:23:33 PM
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Bug!! Thank you so much for your kind thoughts and well wishes...they mean a lot. I've met some really wonderful people here, and I treasure all the connections I've made and all the great info, luv and moral support! A great bunch here. ;-)

I use Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar (it contains the "mother" stuff). Cheap..I get it at The Vitamin Shoppe, but you can find it lots of places. Really good vinegar. I even dilute it 1:4 with distilled water and spray it on my scalp and hair in the shower as a clarifier/conditioner/scalp healing agent(I rinse it out). Evidently a lot of shampoos are very acidic and the vinegar rinse helps balance the hair pH, making it a healthier alkaline. Good luck with the diet..I'm on a mission very soon to get my act together. I know you'll keep us updated on how it affects this awful reaction you've had....OK...by Monday...NO MORE RASH for you!Just skin like a baby's butt. *fingers and toes crossed*

Pay no attention to Caesar. Caesar doesn’t have the slightest idea what’s really going on. Kurt Vonnegut

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