I know Miss J, and maybe some others, have made reference to making their own cosmetics by mixing zinc oxide with, say, lipstick.

Just wondering if that's the usual CVS type zinc oxide that's found in the first aid section -- you know, as ointment for burns.

I lot of times I subdue redlipstick by putting on lip balm that has zinc oxide in it.

So how do sunscreen manufacturers produce zinc-based sunblock with an spf of 15+ that isn't real white?

Some of this stuff that's 15+ goes on okay but then if you sweat a bit it looks like you have a ghostly whitish cast. At least that's what happends to me with, say the Blue Lizard line.

You can use the stuff at CVS. It is greasy but can be blotted with powder.

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Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.

Exactly. Which is why I preach very high PPD sunscreens (Euro ones), wide-brimmed hats/visors, wrap sunglasses, and rx retinoids. When you are in the sun, within 5 minutes, expression of the matrix metalloproteinases in your skin which break down collagens elevates. Use of rx retinoids puts a damper on this elevation. These two, high PPD sun protection and rx retinoids, are the two most important preventative/maintenance items available. Nothing else holds a candle.

Even so, these will not prevent subcutanous fat loss or bony changes on aging. You still have to attend to those things. But you sure as heck can prevent the majority of wrinkles and sags with appropriate skin care alone. Prevention isn't going to be from cleansers, moisturizers or $150 Perricone formulations at Saks or any organic skin care line.

I got my last order from pharmazon.gr, 4 bottles of La Roche Posay SPF 50+ spray, the PPD (UVA protection factor) is 22. 200 ml for $22, which is a steal, as their usual 100 ml tubes are about the same price. It doesn't break me out but it does leave a shiny film which I cover with powder. I use it on my face, hands, neck, and exposed parts of my chest.

http://www.pharmazon.gr/product_info.php?products_id=776&osCsid=cb359f4a964abf2f73dca05550941124

A non-greasy formulation with a PPD around 30 is available, similar price for 100 mls but not as shiny as the spray above.
http://www.parapharmastock.com/creams/174-xl-lait-sans-parfum-dermo-pediatrics.html

There are other sellers.

Bioderma phototerm sunscreens also offer extremely high PPD ratings.
http://www.leguidesante.com/photoderm-oily-skin-40ml/products_6558.html
Bioderma • Photoderm AKN Mat SPF 40 PPD 26, has a matte finish.

You can get more info on which ones might suit you and where to buy at makeupalley.com, those people are fanatic about it.

Avene also makes some good ones. But I have a soft spot for LRP and Bioderma, they've been offering these miracles for the longest time, and L'Oreal (owner of LRP) has develped some very wonderful UVA filters that are too large to penetrate the skin (hence no health hazards) but offer amazing protection. Also look on labels for tinosorbs, these are newer UVA filters with both physical and chemical characteristics. They are also too large to penetrate the skin by design.

Look for these ingredients:

Bis- Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenol Triazine (Tinosorb S)

Methylene Bis-Benzotriazolyl Tetramethylbutylphenol (Tinosorb M)

Drometrizole Trisiloxane (Mexoryl XL) L'Oreal and subsidiaries only

Terephthalylidene dicamphor sulfonic acid (Ecamsule, Mexoryl SX) L'Oreal and subisidaries only, approved in US not long ago but still not widely available yet.

The highest protection formulas will have some of these plus some titanium dioxide, and possibly avobenzone in a photostable formulation.

This is a good place to start learning:
http://makeupalley.com/user/notepad/sunscreens

And a list of sellers:
http://tubotica.com
http://leguidesante.com
http://cosmetik-paris.com
http://frenchcosmeticsforless.com
http://www.cosmetik-paris.com
http://pharmazon.gr
eBay (wasabina and lwsue are both reputable sellers with good service and fast shipping),
http://physea.com
http://www.getcanadiandrugs.com
http://www.pharma-shopping.de
http://www.zitomer.com
http://beautyplatinium.com
http://www.delivereddeals.com

Some of these sites (the USA ones) are outrageously expensive. They have a huge markup. It's cheaper to get them from Euro sites, but you have to buy a lot of tubes or bottles to make it worthwhile.

Kosmed - can you be more specific - you wrote a book on suncreens in general or any particular one ?

Best

Larazelle

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Hotels in Cleveland

kosmeds, thank you for your detailed response.

Kosmeds, I've been using Euro sunscreens w/Mexoryl and Tinosorb for a few yrs. But I have read in a few articles that some dermatologists recommend antioxidants on top of sunscreen, since chemical sunscreen need to be absorbed fully within the epidermis in order to protect. I always have applied serums like Vit. C and others antioxidants, first, let them full dry for about 10-15 min then apply sunscreen. I thought this was the correct way, and some docs also say serums first, sunscreens last.
But some info is different.
I know chemical sunscreens need to penetrate into the upper layer and adhere well, and my antioxidants serums aren't thick, usually very light. But I have noticed that during very sunny days in summer when I'm out for more than 1 hr, even with high PPD 30+ and a broad brim hat, I still have gotten a few freckles on my cheeks/nose, where I tend to get them. I don't get burned or tanned all over, but still get those freckles which I hate. I also reapply after 2 hrs. Maybe the sunscreen is not fully penetrating and sliding off or maybe some people are just prone to freckles even with high PPD? I use mostly Anthelios w/Mexoryl. I have tried Bioderm with tinosorb and I also had some freckling, but not as much. But Bioderma is more whitening on my face.
Do you think these 2 sunscreens can be layered on top of each other for more protection on days when I need it more? I usually don't stay in the sun for too long but in summer, I like spending more time out, but still use plenty of sunscreen, sunglasses, and hats.
I do think the high UVA ss have prevented wrinkling for me though, since I don't have the crows feet that some friends my age have (mid 30s).
But when I see the freckling, I realize that some UVA damage has happened at a deeper level, and worry that eventually more spots will surface and more damage will come up later on. I also use retin-a most of the year (have adapted my skin, used for years), and don't get irritation even in summer since I only use a low dose and not daily.

kosmeds,
That's interesting about the pH. But do know at what pH a sunscreen like Anthelios XL 50 lait is supposed to work?
I know that Vit. C has low pH, and do apply that, but not always. I alternate with green tea serum as well.
But does skin adjust to its natural pH in just 15-20 min after applying an acidic serum like Vit. C?

Maybe it's better that I try applying it only at night, esp. since the benefits of Vit. C serum are supposed to last a while.

However, even during times when I didn't apply any serum, and did apply just high PPD sunscreen, I still got some spots when it was really bright and sunny.
I apply it generously, always have. Usually a teaspoonful for face, and more for neck, chest. A tube of 100ml Anthelios never lasts me an entire month. I also apply on my hands.

I think maybe it could be past damage, from years ago as a teen when I didn't use sunscreen regularly or when I didn't use high PPD.

But I now think I should not use Vit. C serum under the sunscreen on very sunny days. I rarely tan though, it's just spots which I know it's UVA damage. I also know the sunscreen has worked for me over the yrs, since I have much less freckles than before and my skin has kept even toned for the most part.
But those spots that just come up when it's a very sunny day, and I just felt like taking a stroll in the park or spending time outdoors, even w/a hat and heavy duty slathering of sunscreen, High PPD 30+, I still get them. I don't want to stay indoors forever. Maybe I need to reapply in 1 hr, but that's not so feasible sometimes when I'm out doing activities. I try within 2 hrs.

Thanks for your insights, it was helpful.

Kosmeds, thanks again for your responds. I already use Retin-A (for several yrs) and alternate with tazarotene. I don't usually have spots all year, just very faint freckles on my t-zone/nose,that used to be darker years ago, but with retinoids and high PPD ss, they have significantly lightened.
BUT when I go out in summer (bright day), even with high PPD ss, those particular spots get dark again, and a few more seem to pop up.
I always get sunscreen from Europe (have family in Spain) and also get them when I travel, or online. All my bottles have at least a 2 yr expiration date. But I go through them so quickly, that I never keep a bottle that long.

All year long, even when I'm outdoors (I walk alot in the city), I still use high PPD ss, since I know UVA is present and can go through clouds. Yet, most of the year, I don't have those dark spots.

So I'm thinking it's only when the UV index is high in summer and the UVB rays are strong that triggers the melanocytes in those spots to create more melanin, even with the high PPD ss. I also slather it on, so I use alot.
I don't stay out long in hot summer days, since I know it's not good, so I seek shade, etc. But it only takes about 1-2 hrs, of bright sun for me to see those spots sometimes.

One thing it could be, is what you said about the formulas for oily skin/vs. dry. I have been using the Anthelios XL lait mostly in summer, since it's not so greasy once it dries, and the bottle is big, so more economical since I go through them so fast.
Maybe it's not so great for an oily t-zone when it's hot outside, and it sort of slides off? I don't use makeup when I'm out doing things in the summer, since I don't want anything interfering with the ss.

Maybe I will stick with the Anthelios extreme fluide which is a light formula. I have used it often, but don't always get that many bottles since it's so small, and it would last less than 2 weeks. But recently someone got 8 bottles for me from Spain, so I'll try to use them all through the hot summer days.
Maybe since the Anthelios lait is thicker it can melt off or slide off in hot sun, when perspiring? I'm sure all sunscreens can do this, but some are supposed to be more sweat proof than others. Anthelios lait says water resistant but I don't know if it's sweat proof.
Maybe the fluide is lighter and will melt in better and not likely to slide off my oily t-zone in summer.

But I usually can fade those spots with retinoids and vitamin C, and continued sun protection all year.
I was just wondering why the Anthelios wasn't protecting enough in summer, since I know freckles/spots are a sign of sun damage.
I know the sunscreen is working for me, but when I see those spots I freak out that I'm getting deeper UVA damage. I will also try to wear a wider brim hat. Thanks again.