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If he did it personally, than that's good. He's very good at the CO2 laser peels (on appropriate candidates). But I have seen some people (with very bumpy skin) not have much results at all from his Co2 peels. Like some gals in my gym. (Remember, I'm in the boston area). However, I've seen some media people who love his peels. Basically, I had had it with him changing operators on me and made a fuss about it and my laser experience with him doing the caps and then stating: 'Oh gee, your getting more caps with this' was coincident with that kind of interlude with him. I realize he's good for some people. Especially if he does the stuff himself. But he does let his name be an 'umbrella' for new docs working with him or new laser techs and in my experience, some of his new laser techs were low on the learning curve and not those I would have personally selected for my treatment. But rather those he shifted on me. That, I don't go for. KenCarson wrote:Since MissJ brought up the name, I should probably mention that Dr. Dover did my CO2 peels. It's an invasive surgery, so it was performed personally by him. Pricey, but absolutely worth it! My VBeam and Alexandrite were done by other dermatologists, since the treatments are non-ablative and aren't as skill-dependent. But for resurfacing, I trust a very select few. MissJ, I am sorry to hear about your experience. I highly doubt he did anything on purpose. DCNGA, one way to prevent laser mishaps is to do a test patch, especially if you have a very dark or very fair skin type. MissJ wrote: So what the main doc did (Dr. Dover, the laser guru) was screw with me and make his next treatment time 1/2 of the original and he did something to the laser setting as the laser ended up making more caps.
I would often put up a fuss when he would assign me one of his 'newbie' laser techs as why the hell would I go to the laser guru Dover and pay the price if I wanted a newbie laser tech and not the guru himself.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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So, Ken, if you went to Dover for a CO2 peel, he's quite good at that and you got him to do it himself which is also good. So, ya, for laser peels, it's best to go to a laser 'guru' and have that guru do them personally. Otherwise risk with device control get higher with other operators.
In terms of laser gurus in the Boston area, personally, I like Dr. Seckel.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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Yes, he trains younger docs all the time. I think he had trainees in the OR both times. But I believe he performed the peels. I have great respect for him. (Btw, I am surprised he admitted that something went wrong with your procedure -- docs never admit to mistakes for fear of litigation.)
I agree with you -- it's very annoying to have someone else working on you when you have explicitly requested to be treated by a certain doc. I've had that happen with another procedure. But by the time it happened, the surgery was under way and it was too late to say anything.
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OK, I said it was a 'long story'. Basically, with the switching of operators to ones I had not selected, I asked my lawyer (friend) what my rights were. He told me I did not really have any rights IF I accepted the operator and I need to either insist my chosen operator do the procedure or just leave if he gives me another one. My lawyer was in the waiting room with me. But basically 'coaching' me what to do. He said: "Now remember if he suggests that 'dr Bozo' do the treatment, you are to say outright, you want dr. D to do it and if he can't do it, you can reschedule until a time where he can'.
His staff got wind that I had my lawyer in there and sure enough Dover said to me: 'If dr. 'Bozo' (not the docs real name) does your treatment, you can have 2x as much time. At that point, I followed the advice I got which was to refuse an request Dover do it. So D did it and that was what happened.
So, I think he was playing sort of a 'chess game' with me. He got wind that I was actually being 'coached' as to not accept the substitute doc. With that, he offered the substitute doc for 2X the time (assuming the time was 20 min as it was with my other treatment with D). But then gave me 10 min of time with D (not 20) and did something with the laser. Like when he said: 'Oh this is giving you more caps', it was at the point where he wanted to cut the time short.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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You showed up with your lawyer?! LOL. I love this! Thanks for sharing the story, MissJ. I probably wouldn't have accepted the offer either. Now if he offered a deep discount or extra treatments, I'd consider that.
It's unfortunate that patients have no legal recourse in such cases. That's why I like to avoid conflict with doctors. Their egos can be fragile.
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I think in some cases it's the "God Complex" thing rather than fragile egos.....
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Amen to that!
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Ok, V-Star is the one that the doctor uses that I will be going to, so it's not the Candella V-beam. Hopefully, I don't have to worry now.
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KenCarson wrote:You showed up with your lawyer?! LOL. I love this! Thanks for sharing the story, MissJ. I probably wouldn't have accepted the offer either. Now if he offered a deep discount or extra treatments, I'd consider that.
It's unfortunate that patients have no legal recourse in such cases. That's why I like to avoid conflict with doctors. Their egos can be fragile.
Well, Ken, I told you it was a 'long story'. OK, it's not really as it seems. Like it's not as if I hired the lawyer specifically to come along with me or specifically with regard to Dover. Circumstances were that I was doing 'stuff' for the lawyer (unrelated to this)--like I was doing 'gopher' work for the lawyer--type of grunt work a paralegal does--. Anyway, he was going in my direction with his car so I asked for a ride to D's office. In the car, I hit him up for advice as to what to do when I get pawned off to another operator which was 'off topic' with regard to my relationship with him. But hey, he was in the car and was a source for legal advice. So, he came into the waiting room with me for a while and coached me on what to do. But it really was not situation where the relationship was aimed at that specific cause.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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KenCarson wrote: ....
It's unfortunate that patients have no legal recourse in such cases. That's why I like to avoid conflict with doctors. Their egos can be fragile.
Indeed, the lawyer told me outright that I need to be careful as to what kind of contracts I agree to or else there is nothing I can do about it. He also told me that IF a doctor verbally implies that there are 'no risks' to me with a treatment BUT right before the treatment requires I sign a disclaimer in which the risks are stated, (especially in regard to an operator which was not of my choosing) that the only way, he can help is to advise me to ask the doctor if he can do it without my signing the paper; as to proceed based on a verbal contract basis OR TO SAY: 'Gee, this looks like a legal document. I'll need to postpone the treatment until my lawyer looks at this.' That was in response to my whining about what I felt to be implied verbal promises to me that were not being honored. Like the implication that my appointment was to be with a SPECIFIC provider BUT when I got there, a different one was given in which I felt my risks for something screwing up would be higher and my not wanting to foot the risks of someone I did not specifically select as my operator. He told me that if I did not want to foot the risks of an unknown provider not selected by ME, I am instructed not to sign any (more) legal documents that would absolve the provider (not selected by me), in the event I was dissatisfied or harmed by the treatment and to EITHER request that the provider do it without the document OR the head doctor do it, which case, I would sign the document--feeling my risks would be lower with the head doctor.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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Well I had it done a week ago and I did turn dark blue. The doctor told me that I would be bruised for two weeks. The bruises are 65% gone. I hope it worked.
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Zoey, my doc told me that you should not bruise from pulsed dye if done properly by doing a test area and waiting 10-15 minutes, as he said the bruising will usually start developing by then. He did a test area on me, waited, came back and when I showed no signs of bruising he continued at that setting. I did not have one bruise. It's so odd that some people bruise and some do not. Hope you like the results.
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From everything that I've read it has to do with whether a doctor uses a Single Purpuric Pass Versus Multiple Subpurpuric Passes. I guess it's the doctors choice about which type of treatment he feels will work better. Oh well, all I care is whether it works or not. DCNGA wrote:Zoey, my doc told me that you should not bruise from pulsed dye if done properly by doing a test area and waiting 10-15 minutes, as he said the bruising will usually start developing by then. He did a test area on me, waited, came back and when I showed no signs of bruising he continued at that setting. I did not have one bruise.
It's so odd that some people bruise and some do not.
Hope you like the results.
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Okay. My doc uses an older V-Beam so not even sure it has those capabilites. Guess the difference as you describe makes the difference in bruising or not. D
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Actually from what I understand, it's the older ones that always caused Purpura and it's the newer ones that can have the ability to do both. DCNGA wrote:Okay. My doc uses an older V-Beam so not even sure it has those capabilites.
Guess the difference as you describe makes the difference in bruising or not.
D
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Hmmm... I really don't know. He told me it was older but he chose it since it was one of the best. However/whatever he does when he uses it, he says, should not cause bruising, and it did not for me.
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Zoey wrote:Well I had it done a week ago and I did turn dark blue. The doctor told me that I would be bruised for two weeks. The bruises are 65% gone. I hope it worked. Just wanted to say: I've never understood the whys and wherefores of the bruising/not bruising when having caps treated, but in my experience, those deep dark bruises yield the best one-off results...that is, once they've faded -- with me it takes about ten days -- the red will be completely gone, unlike with lasers/methods that don't leave temporary marks.
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I think some of the older technologies used to give bruising/purpura. With PDL you should not experience that.
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You are right. I've been reading the scientific studies regarding purpuric vs non-purpuric and from what I've read if you have the purpuric done there is a higher chance that you will not get a recurrence of the capillaries. That does not mean that those who have the non-purpuric one done will not have a good outcome, as we have read here. But from what I've read the only reason why they came out with doing the non-purpuric one was because there was no downtime. But I would rather have the bruises and know that I will have a better outcome than having to go back and spend the ridiculous amount of money that it costs again!! So far it is looking better and it looks as though it worked. Parisienne wrote:
Just wanted to say: I've never understood the whys and wherefores of the bruising/not bruising when having caps treated, but in my experience, those deep dark bruises yield the best one-off results...that is, once they've faded -- with me it takes about ten days -- the red will be completely gone, unlike with lasers/methods that don't leave temporary marks.
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Yes, I've read that bruising increases effectiveness (the old "no pain, no gain" saying). But I don't think there is a high incidence of purpura with modern PDL lasers. This guy had purpura from IPL, which really freaked me out. He's one of the reasons why I chose VBeam PDL instead.  And here's what my favorite dermatologist writes on the subject: "Surface vascularity in rosacea is minimally improved by medications. Pulsed-dye laser treatment remains the gold standard for treatment of redness, telangiectasia, and transient flushing. Historically, while patients were pleased with the final results of pulsed-dye laser, they were reluctant to receive this intervention because of the inevitability of one to two weeks of post-treatment purpura. Difficult to conceal even with makeup, the dark purple color was embarrassing to patients in social and professional settings. New pulsed-dye lasers, such as the Vbeam, offer the possibility of treating rosacea with longer pulse durations, thus minimizing the post-operative purpura without diminishing the quality of the therapeutic results." Basically short, high-energy pulses of older PDL lasers are substituted with longer, lower-energy pulses, thus avoiding purpura.
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