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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/29/2009 Posts: 2,493 Points: 7,736 Location: The leaf I am sitting on
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Emphatically YES. Your mouth is one of the fastest-healing areas on your bod. So don't worry about your mouth "never feeling the same". It will in a matter of weeks! I recall that the roof of my mouth had some slippery-smooth skin where the grafts were SCRAPED out, but nothing at all long-lasting. Hm. I wonder if I were to take a pizza cutter to my FACE if I'd have that same baby-smooth skin? (I *scare* myself!) rm1961 wrote:Thank you...I heard some people say it wasn't that bad and others say it was torture. I won't rush into anything...and I can work at home for as long as it takes to recover. I am glad that your gum grafts worked. So the wound on the roof of your mouth completely healed OK? I have this fear that my mouth will never feel the same.
I Bug U
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/29/2009 Posts: 2,493 Points: 7,736 Location: The leaf I am sitting on
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Yes, the "age-related" component of gum recession is due to many causes: bone loss (probably my reason), plaque build-up, aggressive brushing, etc. It's not like it "happens with age" but it's common in folks over 40 (read more at: http://www.ask.com/wiki/Receding_gums) - for the very reasons that gum recession is a process that can take place over many years. So ... it does seem odd to me that your dentist says yours came on in the past 15 months. That seems too fast for gum recession (barring any lifestyle activity that would really hurt your gums!). RM1961, my advice would be two-fold: find a new dentist NOW. And either ask that new dentist or try and find a reputable periodontist to give you an answer about your gums. Good luck finding a competent professional to give you a final answer on the gum grafts. What if you don't need them?!?! You'll save a bundle of dough and the discomfort. It's worth your time to search. ================== rm1961 wrote:
By the way, I asked my dentist about the inevitability of gum recession with age. I said "does this just happen with age?" He said "No". He felt mine was anatomic, as the teeth point into towards the tongue, then the gum followed the bone, or something like that. He did say I had some bone loss which is perhaps why he changed his tune about me needing the grafts. But then he pointed out he is not a perio and does not do this type of surgery.
I am feeling now like I have to apologize to him for my accusation that they did not point this process out to me as I can't believe it happened in the course of 1.3 years. There had to have been some signs, in my opinion. You don't just all of a sudden lose your gums between the ages of 47 and 48.
He has not replied to my last email and I have a feeling they don't want to deal with me since I expressed my displeasure. I know I need to find a new dentist but the good thing, I think, about this dentist I have been doing to is he won't do unnecessary procedures.
I Bug U
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 279 Points: 837 Location: MA
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Bugjune wrote:Yes, the "age-related" component of gum recession is due to many causes: bone loss (probably my reason), plaque build-up, aggressive brushing, etc. It's not like it "happens with age" but it's common in folks over 40 (read more at: http://www.ask.com/wiki/Receding_gums) - for the very reasons that gum recession is a process that can take place over many years. So ... it does seem odd to me that your dentist says yours came on in the past 15 months. That seems too fast for gum recession (barring any lifestyle activity that would really hurt your gums!). RM1961, my advice would be two-fold: find a new dentist NOW. And either ask that new dentist or try and find a reputable periodontist to give you an answer about your gums. Good luck finding a competent professional to give you a final answer on the gum grafts. What if you don't need them?!?! You'll save a bundle of dough and the discomfort. It's worth your time to search. ================== Thanks...I agree. In retrospect, and in doing tons of research about what other people experience at their dental visits, my dentist was lazy and looked in my mouth at my exams for about 30 seconds. He would say "bite down" and ask the hygienist if there were any problems and she always just shook her head, no. They seemed much more concerned about teeth than gums. As I said, I never heard the word gums mentioned at any visits. And since I went there for 20 years, I had no other practice to compare it too. Big mistake on my part but what can you do.
From everything I read it is a gradual process and it is up to dental professionals to let you know the beginning signs of recession and to advise you to brush a different way, etc. There is NO WAY this occurred in the last 15 months. AND it seems suspect that his hygienist quit after 20 years, right before my visit in January. I could see signs that they were on prickly terms and she probably was burnt out and too resentful about him to pay attention to my mouth. Sigh.
So I have an appt. at a top dental school this Friday, with a practicing dentist who is in training to become a periodontist. It's going to cost $48 for an exam with measurements and a suggested treatment plan, all supervised by faculty. Seems worth the $$$ to me. AND I have an appt. with a periodontist in my city who came recommended. The evaluation is $125.00. I can only imagine the price tag he will come up with.
A friend told me both her sisters had gum grafts with problems, continued bleeding, etc. Even this crappy dentist of mine wrote in the progress notes that he advises not jumping into surgery.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 5/14/2008 Posts: 17,654 Points: 45,047
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I have to go to one of the big school clinics too. Might go to BU.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 279 Points: 837 Location: MA
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MissJ wrote:I have to go to one of the big school clinics too. Might go to BU. I had lunch with a friend the other day who had work done at the BU Dental clinic. She had an extraction and implant done by a student and estimates she saved about $3-4K by having it done there. It does take longer but she was happy with the work done.
Since I already made my appointment with Tufts, I will plan to go there. I'm just hopeful that I get a good student. Certainly I won't let them do anything until I feel comfortable.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/15/2008 Posts: 5,936 Points: 16,585 Location: Payne Whitney Ward #3
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Anything really major will be done by a Resident.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/29/2009 Posts: 2,493 Points: 7,736 Location: The leaf I am sitting on
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Wow rm1961 - you are getting a bargain with that $48 exam! I pay $120 at my little dental shack up here in the forest. Granted, they seem professional and competent up here ... That is excellent that you'll also have the periodontal consult. Looks like you'll be in good hands. And even if a gum graft IS recommended, know that you will survive. In point of fact, my colonoscopy of last fall was FAR WORSE than the gum graft. No Valium for that one ... and the "twilight" sedation I was given must not have worked, as I yelled out, "STOP IT! STOP!" during the procedure. But you won't have to worry about that little exam till you hit 50. I Bug U
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Editor
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Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 3,554 Points: 8,144
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Bugjune wrote:Wow rm1961 - you are getting a bargain with that $48 exam! I pay $120 at my little dental shack up here in the forest. Granted, they seem professional and competent up here ...
That is excellent that you'll also have the periodontal consult. Looks like you'll be in good hands. And even if a gum graft IS recommended, know that you will survive.
In point of fact, my colonoscopy of last fall was FAR WORSE than the gum graft. No Valium for that one ... and the "twilight" sedation I was given must not have worked, as I yelled out, "STOP IT! STOP!" during the procedure.
But you won't have to worry about that little exam till you hit 50. I have heard other stories such as this : 0
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 279 Points: 837 Location: MA
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Thanks Bugjune - you had good results with your gum grafts but I have heard stories of adverse results. We'll see after the consults...I am quite convinced that a graft will be recommended. This is not something I plan to rush into though, I will do a LOT of research first.
Oh, and I did have a colonoscopy at 45 (had some symptoms but it was negative) and it was an absolute breeze. Don't remember a thing (the Versed did the trick) and my doctor was VERY good looking.
Bugjune wrote:Wow rm1961 - you are getting a bargain with that $48 exam! I pay $120 at my little dental shack up here in the forest. Granted, they seem professional and competent up here ...
That is excellent that you'll also have the periodontal consult. Looks like you'll be in good hands. And even if a gum graft IS recommended, know that you will survive.
In point of fact, my colonoscopy of last fall was FAR WORSE than the gum graft. No Valium for that one ... and the "twilight" sedation I was given must not have worked, as I yelled out, "STOP IT! STOP!" during the procedure.
But you won't have to worry about that little exam till you hit 50.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 279 Points: 837 Location: MA
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Had my consult at the dental school yesterday. I was impressed with the office and the faculty member that supervised the student. The student has been a practicing dentist for 6 years although (through my internet research) she earned her degree in Saudi Arabia, now that that means anything necessarily. She seemed competent although I noticed the faculty member was gentler when probing my gums than she was.
They recommended a free gingival graft (FGG) and the price is $494 for 1 to 3 teeth on each side, so the whole thing would cost me about $1000.00. I'm sure this is WAY cheaper than in a private practice.
First line of treatment is conservative with Root Planing and scaling which will come to $280. She wants to do this next week. I just had my teeth cleaned in January but she said I already have plaque collecting in the recessed areas and they have to clean it out. Being the skeptic that I am, I am somewhat worried that this will somehow make my recession worse than it is. It seems to be getting worse daily on my top teeth despite my very careful brushing.
I do think I brushed my gums away and my dentist never pointed it out. Very disappointed but I guess it could be worse. The faculty member and student both said that this condition was "years in the making". I can't believe my dentist tried to make it sound like it was an acute process, he knows he messed up and I could even sue him if I wanted to pursue that.
There is also a graft called a connective tissue graft (CTG) which I hear is not as invasive and awful as the FGG but according to the faculty member, not as "predictable"as the FGG which he said "always works if it's done right". He said healing would take about a month total for each side. He acknowledged that I "won't be happy" during the postop period. It sounds awful to me and I'm feeling less willing to let a student do this. But if this faculty member was there (I felt very comfortable with him, and found out he volunteered to help with Katrina victims which made me like him even more) I might feel better.
I found the faculty member online at his own practice and he even has a facebook page. I really liked him and I want to ask him some more questions about this.
Do you think it's appropriate for me to contact him directly, remind him that I am the patient he saw yesterday and ask him some more questions about my options rather than going through the student?
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/15/2008 Posts: 5,936 Points: 16,585 Location: Payne Whitney Ward #3
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I would say only if you want him to do it. Otherwise make another consult appointment, take notes, and ask exactly who would be present for the grafting.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 279 Points: 837 Location: MA
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I told the student I liked him, and she said that she could request that he be the supervising faculty member if I undergo the grafting.
The more I read about all of this, the more I think I'm asking for trouble.
I do not have any "pockets" according to the measurements they took. The student said "oh no, you don't have pockets". Pockets in the gums indicates periodontal disease, and my recession is apparently due to anatomical, orthodontic factors and brushing the wrong way. I'm wondering if I modify brushing habits (which I already have done, I hate to admit I was doing that washboard thing - totally unconscious about the way I brushed my teeth - egads) and do an intense oral hygiene program if I can just live with this and stop it in it's tracks.
I'm afraid the root planing and scaling is somehow going to make it worse, and as MissJ pointed out, possibly create more problems because I don't have "pockets".
I have really no symptoms except a heightened awareness of my "bald" teeth, occasional twinges. and my dentist told me gum grafts often don't work, in his "31 years of experience".
Also, have seen several comments from dentists on line that they have never seen tooth loss from simple gum recession.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
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I had grafting on lower teeth in front several years ago by a periodontist. I do not remember all the details but for the dentist to say you "won't be happy " during the post-op time brought some memories back. Tissue was taken from the roof of my mouth, and that is the area that hurt. To protect the area, aluminum foil was somehow placed there. it kept coming out and was annoying. But the overall discomfort did not last too long. Since then, I brought it up recently to the same dentist and he said they have better methods now for less pain.
I can speak to the issue of Dental School students though. My husband and I both had several implants done at a highly reputable dental school in CT. The care was superb and the students are closely supervised. If yours is a periodontal issue, as was ours, they are not newbies, but rather students who are now specializing. It takes longer though to even get the appointments.
As for calling the supervising dentist you like, that is perfectly acceptable. We did that when husband had an emergency and the school could not see him. Now that the expensive work is done, we see that supervisor all the time as our dentist, since it is easier than going through the dental school process, although not as inexpensive. However i would recommend dental schools to anyone if you have time to wait.
I hope this helps. Good luck to you.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
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Thanks Eliz for your thoughtful reply. I think I am going to email this supervising periodontist, he was quite friendly and I was taken with his gentle, calm manner. That in addition to the fact that he volunteered in New Orleans after Katrina made me think he's the "giving" type and I could trust him.
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 279 Points: 837 Location: MA
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The latest from last week: had an upsetting conversation with the student perio when I tried to find out why they were going to charge me for a "scaling and root planing" when I don't need the "root planing" part of the procedure since I don't have "pockets" in my gums. AND I just had had my teeth cleaned in January, so that would take care of the 'scaling'. Even though the price of $280 is WAY cheaper than what this would cost at a private periodontist, I know I did not need to be charged this much, especially at a school.
I also expressed some of my fears to the student, and that I wanted to have a second opinion. In the midst of this conversation she said she was offended by what I was saying and that when I go to the private perio, I should not approach it like he's a "salesman" but as a "medical professional". Hello? A student is bringing her EGO into talking about cutting the roof of my mouth open and stitching tissue onto my gums?
I told her I was scared and she said she did not understand why. I said it seemed like I had a serious problem and then she starts to freak out and says, "YES, this is a serious problem."
She then said "R, if you don't have this procedure this is GOING to get worse. This is the ONLY thing that will work. If you don't have it, you will LOSE your TEETH in 5 to 10 years!"
This, naturally, caused my fear and anxiety to escalate so I called a dentist that two friends have highly recommended and he agreed to see me that day. He examined my mouth and said I will not lose my teeth. This was without question, the most thorough dental exam I have had. He was GREAT. (My original loser dentist of 20 years also said I would not lose my teeth...was quite adamant about this...but he did admit the recession could get worse). He asked me to show him how I brush my teeth and apparently I've not been doing it correctly. He said that the surgery is "elective" and although I might get 3mm of tissue added to the gums, in time it would recede again. He said he did not know what else to tell me and he was not sure if it were him or a family member if he would go through with gum grafting. He said that the gingivitis I had on the left side of my upper teeth should clear up in a week with correct brushing and flossing. It has not completely cleared up.
Well, I have a private perio visit in early April. I postponed it as I wanted more time to research before I go in there so I have a lot of information. I am SUPER worried about this and my prior anxiety about the sun damage on my chest has been dwarfed by these dental issues.
I did not contact the faculty member who supervised the student perio. I will see what price tag the private perio offers and depending on that, could even try for a different student. This student kept calling herself a "periodontist" when she has not graduated yet. When she started getting emotional on the phone and then telling me she was "offended", all I could think was that she saw a lost opportunity to get another chance to cut into someone's palate and gums. Sorry but I can't be this chick's guinea pig.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/15/2008 Posts: 5,936 Points: 16,585 Location: Payne Whitney Ward #3
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rm1961 wrote:
She then said "R, if you don't have this procedure this is GOING to get worse. This is the ONLY thing that will work. If you don't have it, you will LOSE your TEETH in 5 to 10 years!"
When she started getting emotional on the phone and then telling me she was "offended", all I could think was that she saw a lost opportunity to get another chance to cut into someone's palate and gums. Sorry but I can't be this chick's guinea pig.
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This sounds a GREAT DEAL like my NYU experience. If you use a manual toothbrush, try switching to electric. The toothbrush does all the work, you just have to hold it correctly and that may help your gums. No way in hell would I use your current student. You might try a different school, or request a new student. I had a real doozie at Sinai that I got rid of.
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Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 640 Points: 2,432
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I hate the scare tactics, which seem to go hand in hand with pushiness and fake offendedness (how dare you question them!). I think it would be good to have this stuff trigger a "get a second or third opinion!!", but unfortunately we seem to have to suffer first before learning this hard lesson.
The older I get, the more I loathe the hard sell. That student definitely wanted to practice on you.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
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It's very common for dentists to look for EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES IN YOUR MOUTH. It's prudent to question them and research further and CROSS REFERENCE with others who appear more forthright to you or who have no incentive to look for employment opportunities in your mouth.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
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rm1961 wrote:The latest from last week: had an upsetting conversation with the student perio when I tried to find out why they were going to charge me for a "scaling and root planing" when I don't need the "root planing" part of the procedure since I don't have "pockets" in my gums. AND I just had had my teeth cleaned in January, so that would take care of the 'scaling'. Even though the price of $280 is WAY cheaper than what this would cost at a private periodontist, I know I did not need to be charged this much, especially at a school.
I also expressed some of my fears to the student, and that I wanted to have a second opinion. In the midst of this conversation she said she was offended by what I was saying and that when I go to the private perio, I should not approach it like he's a "salesman" but as a "medical professional". Hello? A student is bringing her EGO into talking about cutting the roof of my mouth open and stitching tissue onto my gums?
I told her I was scared and she said she did not understand why. I said it seemed like I had a serious problem and then she starts to freak out and says, "YES, this is a serious problem."
She then said "R, if you don't have this procedure this is GOING to get worse. This is the ONLY thing that will work. If you don't have it, you will LOSE your TEETH in 5 to 10 years!"
This, naturally, caused my fear and anxiety to escalate so I called a dentist that two friends have highly recommended and he agreed to see me that day. He examined my mouth and said I will not lose my teeth. This was without question, the most thorough dental exam I have had. He was GREAT. (My original loser dentist of 20 years also said I would not lose my teeth...was quite adamant about this...but he did admit the recession could get worse). He asked me to show him how I brush my teeth and apparently I've not been doing it correctly. He said that the surgery is "elective" and although I might get 3mm of tissue added to the gums, in time it would recede again. He said he did not know what else to tell me and he was not sure if it were him or a family member if he would go through with gum grafting. He said that the gingivitis I had on the left side of my upper teeth should clear up in a week with correct brushing and flossing. It has not completely cleared up.
Well, I have a private perio visit in early April. I postponed it as I wanted more time to research before I go in there so I have a lot of information. I am SUPER worried about this and my prior anxiety about the sun damage on my chest has been dwarfed by these dental issues.
I did not contact the faculty member who supervised the student perio. I will see what price tag the private perio offers and depending on that, could even try for a different student. This student kept calling herself a "periodontist" when she has not graduated yet. When she started getting emotional on the phone and then telling me she was "offended", all I could think was that she saw a lost opportunity to get another chance to cut into someone's palate and gums. Sorry but I can't be this chick's guinea pig.
You can ask for a new student. My husband and I did that when we went for implants at a dental school. The first did not make us feel comfortable. You might want to call the supervisor and explain the situation. The supervisor works with other students and can probably help arrange it for you. Plus, the supervisor can help this student grow in the area of communication skills. By the way, recently I got another implant and crown, this time at the private practice of our former supervisor from the dental school. It was about $5000 rather than about $2000 at the school. I could afford it, and didn't want all the waiting time, but the price difference was amazing. Honestly it wasn't that bad when I had the grafting. I think the dentist has given you unneeded fears. Also regarding the scaling, the student is looking for procedures to learn, so you saying you do not want that procedure is costing her a chance to practice. You will get wonderful care at the school, but you need to find a student you are comfortable with. Feeling comfortable will aid in the healing process. Good luck to you.
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Rank: Administration Groups: Administration
Joined: 5/14/2008 Posts: 17,654 Points: 45,047
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rm1961,
Our mutual friend all knowing acquaintance: Win, (you know him--the guy with the large straw hat) says to first book a consult at the Harvard Faculty Dental clinic--like have a faculty member give assessment.
Can hardly walk. Need hip replacement.
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