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TCA Peels .. has anyone tried and had good results? Options · View
chloe1011
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:55:28 PM
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AnnieB
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:05:54 PM
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I have. I had one done by my doctor a few years ago, which was great, but now I am doing them myself and am seeing much more improvement because I have done several. I plan one more next week or two, and then will probably drop to 2-3 a year for maintenance.

I have been doing my entire body, actually, but not at the same time. Since last August I have been in the process of peeling on different body parts pretty regularly. Lol

chloe1011
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:06:56 PM
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Hi Annie - I am thinking of doing it at home too. Do you know what percentage you are using? I was going to start with the 12.5%. 8% is the lowest.
What kinds of improvements do you get? Thanks!
AnnieB
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:15:21 PM
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Hey Chloe,

That's what I started with as well. 12.5 from MUAC. Is that where you ordered yours? I then moved to 15% Skin Obsession, which their peels have a lower ph and are a bit stronger for the percentage, so it might be closer to an 18% from MUAC. (I'm guessing, give or take).

Do you use any actives right now? Retinoids or Hydroxys? Or any other home peels? (glycolic, lactic or salicylic acid).

I believe it definitely helps to kind of prepare your skin prior, and especially when doing home peels, on your own.

That said, I've done tons of reading on this on various forums, and there have been people who have not prepped their skin ahead of time and they have been fine, so long as they start at a low percentage.

I am now using 20%, two layers, and have done some spot treatments at 25%. I've been doing combo peels, and in fact when I did my first TCA I did it as a combo with a glycolic first. But unless you have been using peels already, I don't think I would recommend that. I had been doing glycolic peels for weeks first, so I felt brave enough.

Through trial and error as well as reading other's experiences, I've learned a few things:

Wash your face with a mild cleanser, and then after patting dry do give it a good 20 minutes to air dry. Then prep your skin. I started using that blue stuff that MUAC sells, but moved on from that to alcohol. When I was still not getting a good frost, I then moved on to straight acetone, which is what they used on me at my doctor's office, and is very common with people who do a lot of home tca peels. I know it sounds insane, but it works, and amazingly doesn't feel dry after the peel. I use a cotton ball and really scrub the skin to make sure to get absolutely all traces of anything, including oils, off.

Let that dry a couple minutes.

I use vaseline and I put some in my eyebrows, to keep any from dripping into my eyes. I then put some on right under my nose, almost inside it. Then some on my lips.

Wear gloves! If you get this on your fingers, once it starts to peel it feels awful. For days you feel like you have glue stuck on the ends. Then it peels and your fingers feel slippery without that layer of skin! No pain, just not a nice feeling and hard to type. Anyway...

What I have found works best for me, is I use those little tiny measuring cups that come attached to the tops of otc cold medicines. They are the perfect size. I pour a little bit of the TCA in there, and I use gauze pads from the drug store. I think they are 2x3 inches? Around that size. I fold one over, and I hold on to the one end and dip the other in the cup, then I press it against the side to squeeze the extra out. I go from left to right across my face. I now do under my eyes, but I did not at first (I also use RA there so they were prepped).

It should not be so wet that it stays wet looking for long. I had some drip down the side of my face and I did not know it and it left red drip marks for weeks.

Keep a blow dryer right there and plugged in and on cold setting. I don't feel much pain from TCA, as glycolic or SA are worse, IMO. But you may really feel it. It is not so much pain, as itching so bad it almost hurts.

TCA self neutralizes. You do not need to wash it off, but it will not start to neutralize for I think 5-8 minutes or so. So if you are really uncomfortable and are nervous, it will slow it down to wash it off early, but try to keep it on at least a minute or two (the pain/itching does lessen with time). If you just can't though, then wash it off for sure! However, if you are fine, then you can just keep it on and not remove it til you next wash your face next day. It won't hurt to rinse if you want to, but I don't. Most people do but I think they think they need to to neutralize it, because some instructions tell you that. I know it is not necessary though, and my doctor did not with me. I just immediately apply moisturizer after ten minutes or so. If you are doing more than one layer, then you would add the second after five minutes or so.

If you have frosted in any areas, don't put more on those particular areas. I have done that but not my first peels. You really should just do one layer the first time. You may be disappointed if you don't think you peeled much and never frost, but I promise you that it is still working. It is still speeding up cel turnover and you will get a good peel still!

Some people like to "starve" their face and put no moisturizer on it. They think it peels faster. From my experience that was misery. MISERY. Once your face starts to harden (like a layer of glue), it can crack. Mistake number two I made was my face was cracking so bad and I opened my mouth too wide (meaning more than a slit, as it was practically glued shut), and it cracked and gave the same effect as if I had peeled my skin with my fingers: the dreaded red marks again, for weeks.

Keep moisturized with bland moisturizer. I use a moisturizer and then either Aquafor or emu oil over that. I keep it goods and moisturized all the time. It will still harden like that glue look/feel. Not as bad as without moisture though.

Sorry this is so long. It is definitely a process, and they don't tell you much in the instructions.

I can't even tell you what to expect at all, regarding peeling or frosting or if you will have it bad with a 12.5 or not. Some people really peel and others are saying they had a very mild reaction. If that is the case, then you can consider it a good "prep" for your next peel and maybe do two layers or add a Jessner first (helps the peel penetrate better, and makes it a much stronger peel).

I think so much of this you learn as you go, but I would definitely recommend doing a series. Since I am doing the stronger peels I wait 6 weeks. The weaker ones I was doing 3-4 weeks. Really until you know your skin is all healed and then give it some time after that. I think some people do them too often.

If you have any questions let me know or if you want to email me about anything, please do! jaclassics@aol.com. Or PM, whatever.

Oh, as far as results. My best results have been on my hands and my chest, because they were way more damaged, and I didn't really use anything on them religiously like I had already been doing my face.

My face I can tell you that the texture GREATLY improved (and this after 25 years using RA, and a few years using AHA creams). Also some fine lines have disappeared and I definitely have some tightening. Not much, but I can tell for absolute positive, without a doubt. But this took a few peels...

Also has helped pigmentation and evened out my uneven skin tone. That was quite noticeable after one or two peels.

My most prized improvement though are some cracks I had outside of my mouth, that I developed at age 28 from poor nutrition. Herman Munster has these for point of reference. ;) I have never used anything on them. No RA, no aha...was always afraid. But I braved it and I have done 3 TCAs on them, including the last one was a "spot" at 25% (no jessner or glycolic first).

I can tell you that those horrible cracks are now a good 40% shallower and shorter in length. It is like a miracle. Oh, I have also been using copper peptides on them (and I do use that now after my peels, but only started that two peels ago). Even if those cracks don't get any better than they are now, they have come a long way and I am thrilled. They are very embarassing. Straight out the corners and run down diagonally. (they are not marionette, they are actually cracks, like maybe smokers lines on crack.;) Deeper and longer).

Sorry for all the typos I probably have up there.

I think I better make a copy of this post, as I'm not sure it will all load. LOL

Sarah W
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:35:37 PM
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Wow that sounds scary, Annie. I think I would start on my hands first just in case I got it wrong!

Thank you so much for that great explanation! You have had good results by being so meticulous
AnnieB
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:40:35 PM
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No problem at all Sarah. This is my current obsession, and I love to talk about it. Actually, the hands and the rest of the body have an easier tendency to burn, so you do need to be careful. I started with 12.5, one layer, and kept it to that for first two peels before moving up. I do my hands bi weekly with lactic acid peels as well. My hands will never be pretty unless I get filler, but compared to how they were they are greatly improved! (plus I have man hands, not a pretty feminine shape to my fingers at all. Jerry Seinfeld would hate them.;))

Your post reminded me that I forgot to say that it is very important to do a spot test.

I didn't, but it is important. LOL I am just too impatient, but I do think that it really should be done. Some people really have hurt themselves, but from my reading, I can say that almost all of them have done crazy peels. One guy did a two layer 30% and his first time!

Over at acne.org, some of those desperate teens are doing CRAZY stuff and end up with burns.

If you take it slow and easy, hard as it is to be patient, it really pays off. If you get a bad burn, you can set yourself back weeks, months, possibly a year.

AnnieB
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:42:53 PM
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Really, though, if doing the neck or chest, DO do a spot peel first.
AnnieB
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:51:01 PM
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Sheesh, me again. Sorry!

I do think I need to reiterate that you do have to be so careful.

My biggest scare was on my arms. I had already done two combo peels on my arms, and I thought I was fine. I upped to a 20% for my third. I used a Jessner first, and i went over my arm, no biggie as per normal.

Then when I went over it with my TCA, the area on the inside of my elbow, where I have had blood taken time and again, frosted so fast before my eyes. it really started to hurt and it was not normal. It scared me and I immediately washed it.

It was definitely a burn, and it hurt so bad I had to take advil (and that didn't help). But, it was bad, and very very red. I have an aloe vera plant so I broke some off and that felt good and maybe helped. Before bed I put copper peptide (bioheal) on. It took a good week for it to calm down, using the CP daily.

Really, something can happen without warning. I was fine, didn't even have the mark long at all. It was not permanent. However, no way will I ever do a 20 on there again, and in fact, will not use Jessner first either. Not on those spots.

I think it actually burned my vein. I have huge veins in my arms. People comment. It hurt as if that had been burned, under my skin. It was right over he vein where this happened. On my right arm, the one they always take blood from. I had done the left arm first and it was fine.

No idea...
Sarah W
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:07:10 PM
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Yikes,maybe the skin is thinner there. I will be very careful
AnnieB
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:16:32 PM
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I think it is Sarah, and especially on my very thin skin. I feel it has to have something to do with that vein. It is this big old guy that runs through there, and along that is where it just frosted up. I"m always in for blood tests for this or that, so maybe it has scar tissue or something? I have no idea, and don't have enough knowledge to even make a good educated guess.

Between the jessner and a 20%,that was a pretty strong peel. Granted though, the rest of the arms did great.
Sarah W
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:45:46 AM
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Thanks Annie. Yep, caution sounds like a smart idea.
Robin
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:37:27 PM
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you don't neutralize or just rinse your TCA?

I had a sensi-peel from an aesthetician which is a light lactic and tca combo. I liked it so much I bought some DIY lactic (10%) and TCA (8%) . Have done the lactic a couple of times... not the TCA yet. Seems scarier somehow.
AnnieB
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:00:50 PM
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Hi Robin,

I do not neutralize the TCA. I did for my first few peels (including body, I mean), but when discussing it with some others was told that I don't need to neutralize it, so after doing some more research I stopped. My own doctor did not neutralize when I had mine done there either. It won't hurt anything to do it, but I feel I get a better peel leaving it on. I will say that if you google it you will get a 50/50 on neutralizing TCAs! Some say you do, some say you don't.

Now with the glycolic, lactic and SA peels I do neutralize. First I was filling the sink with cold water and baking soda, until later discovering that really, you only need water. So that's what I do now.

TCA can be intimidating until you do it once or twice. I was really intimidated doing the glycolic and SA peels first too, but once I did a few I was fine, and I think that's what made the TCA easier for me to jump into.

I had read so many, many long threads for months (Skincaretalk.com has so many), on TCA peels, where someone will do the peel and write down every step of it through the entire process, and others joining in. One thread over 30-40 pages long. I really recommend doing that kind of reading first before venturing into it. You learn from other's mistakes, and also learn a lot of helpful pointers you may never have thought about.

It does seem a lot harder than it is though. Some people do light tca peels monthly and never go higher. In the long run they may probably have the same results unless they are really trying to go deep. Less down time, less risk...
Robin
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:54:47 PM
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Thanks Annie. I appreciate the extra detail.

I've had derm do TCA crosses in my big pores but I don't know what the strength was - i should call and find out. i could do them on m own, I think, and the treatment did make a difference.
AnnieB
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:35:17 AM
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You are very welcome, Robin. If you do call and find out the strength, could you please let me know?

Two weeks ago I did a "spot" treatment on the cracks that are coming out from my mouth. I did that "cross" method. If I open my mouth wide, the cracks spread out, so I could easily get in there (while these cracks do start in the actual corners of my mouth, they branch out beyond. I am not addressing the parts in the corners, but only that which spreads out beyond).

So I used just a 25% TCA, one layer, and I soaked two toothpicks in it for a few minutes. Then I kind of pressed into the center, all the way down. I know I am only two weeks out, but I believe this really helped more than doing the regular TCA in which I just swiped over the entire thing. I think this kind of broke up and softened the center, and it is now fusing together as well as building up the center (guessing that's what is happening). They are shallower and shorter and more narrow.


After doing some reading, I had discovered that these cracks were more like a scar than a wrinkle, so that's why I thought the cross method would work. I really believe it is.

Of course, during the initial healing, those cracks were bright red, and looked like blood, giving me the Black Dahlia look for a few days. But I stayed home anyway.

I had wondered if that method would work for pores. So they were able to get inside the pore without hitting the outside ridges of it?

From what I understand, a "true" cross method would be 90-100% tca, but I know that 35% TCA with using Jessner first is the same as a 50% TCA (but much safer), so I think that using a lesser percentage than 90% and using Jessner first might bring it up. I am just too afraid to do that myself, so I will just do more of the 25% and hope that I eventually get there.

If you do ever find out what your % was, I would love to know. No worries if you don't check. I don't know what % TCA my doctor used a few years ago for my peel (entire face) either. This was before I knew anything about it and just told him to "do what I need."

I am having fun with these peels, since I am actually having success. The age spots on my hands are the most amazing part. The smaller ones are gone completely, and the one big one I have is so much lighter and has a strip through the middle that is gone. it is like two "half moons" now, and I figure a few more lactic peels and another TCA and it will be gone too.

Nothing else worked prior.
Robin
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 11:53:06 AM
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what you did on the sides of your mouth sounds similar to what she did with my pores. she had the medical equivalent of a long toothpick, and basically she was inserting it into each pore. the idea is to get the walls of the pore, and some does come into contact with the ring of tissue surrounding the pore. I didn't look bloody or black but it does crust and peel a few days later - because it's confined to a specific area and she was going from pore to pore and not treating the area in between, it looked like a bunch or cluster of pimple scabs or something like that.
AnnieB
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 12:12:14 PM
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Very interesting. So you think it did work? Even a month out? I have found that with me it takes from 3-6 weeks for the "final result" from each peel, but that by 3 I think it is pretty much there.

I wonder what you could use at home? A toothpick would be too big. I am thinking, actually, that I have read of people doing the cross using a needle that has been filed flat on top. I know you don't actually want to break skin, yet you want to press firm enough that the solution does penetrate well.

It might be really hard with a pore to do yourself, but maybe with a really strong magnifying mirror it could be done.
watchthemoon
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 12:46:50 PM
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Hi Annie, glad you're back and thanks for the in-depth instructions.

I used a toothpick with 25% tca on an enlarged pore and it made it look about half as cavernous but it took awhile to fill in.

The same amount on spots on my thighs made them larger and darker.Not happy about that.

It works great for brown spots on the face though.Also on the chest and it worked on my lower legs.

They use 100% in derm offices and I did find a source online but never ordered it.

I've not done a full peel however as I don't want to be hiding out that long at this point.

AnnieB
Posted: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:20:22 PM
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Hi WtM!! Thank you for your warm welcome. I am glad to be back!

I read many of your old posts at MMH when I was doing my research. I remember you doing some spot treatments with the 25%. I don't remember if I read about you doing the cross method on your pore or not. So it did fill in and it looked smaller? Interesting that you used a toothpick. Good to know it worked. Did it stay that way after one time? Did you do one layer? (can you even "layer" a cross?).

Regarding the spots on your thighs, did you do only one application? I have found, with my spots on my hands,that they were darker after the first peel. However, they have gotten progressively lighter with each peel since, to where they have disappeared (and almost disappeared for the one left). I think that it may take a series, as they are brought closer to the surface with the first peel or two, and then after that they are directly affected by subsequent peels so they start to fade. Perhaps doing more peels would have helped?

Although odd they actually increased in size. I really can't say I blame you for not wanting to chance it. Maybe when they were buried, they looked smaller though? Still...it is kind of scary taking these chances.

Still odd how it worked on lower legs and chest and face though. I have seen such a difference in how the entire peel works on different body parts. On the legs and arms I get massive smaller, softer, flaky flaking, but on the chest, neck and face it is more the hard glue like larger pieces that come off.

Don't blame you on the full peels. I have found that from "peel to presentable" using two layers 20% and 1 layer Jessner, it is 6 days. Now, to say from "peel to looking good" it is more like 10-12 days. That's a long time!

One of the gals at MMH does a 25% once a month, with no Jessner. She has very little down time at all, and boy, her skin is gorgeous. Flawless (she took care of it from young age, that helps). She's 47. I think it is the Jessner and two layers of 20 that puts me out of commission so long. I am going to try just 25 next time and nothing else. Will let you know my experience.

(just re-read this post. Sorry for all the questions!)
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